652 Comments

Taylor Lorenz continues to draw a paycheck from the Times, while Donald McNeil has been fired. The New York Times is a sorry joke of a paper.

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New York Slimes, like their counterpart the Washington Compost, and the Corrupt Nasty Network, and finally, Maim Scream Neutered Bitches & Creeps...

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You forgot the Atlanta Urinal-Constipation

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Criticizing public figures like she does is almost always done in the name of profit. Let's face it, who is the most likely next Democratic candidate for Gov of NY? Could it be Letitia James, who got this whole Cuomo takedown ball rolling from her AG seat? Heck yes. She's not wrong in criticizing him but the self-interest is palpable. No different than how Rudy Giuliani built his career though, prosecuting high-profile people who may or may not have been as guilty as he needed them to be to achieve his plans for ascendance.

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With regards to Biden's staff, it's a very diverse group of uniformly horrible people.

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“The most diverse cabinet in the history of Goldman Sacks and Raytheon.”

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.....and the nearly intact team of the scam of the century -- Russia-gate hoax

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This made my day!

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I adore each and every one of you brilliant commenteers! (you know who are) and because of you my "spew-my-coffee-through-my-nose" laughter is perhaps singularly keeping the that plan-B lone bullet safe in it's cozy chamber forever!!!

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You should read his comments in his mother tongue... ;-))

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One of the most perverse developments is how the elites and the MSM have converted female, non-European ancestry, non-binary sexual orientation, etc., from increased "diversity" into literal qualifications for political appointment.

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I am amazed at how much they waste their time and resources on utterly useless crap. Virtue signaling must pay well, but, at the cost of efficiency /effectiveness. Diversity of thought creates better world. No cure for stupids.

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Hmm..."horrible" must come in various colors.

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That's how one achieves the balance.

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I hate that I have to degree with this...

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"Agree"... you know what I meant.

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But I want to know to what degree do you agree?

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Way more than I should have to, unfortunately. I wish I could remember the article—and it’s certainly cynical—but somebody hypothesized that Biden’s diversity picks were strategically meant so that any push back against them could be dismissed as sexist, racist, etc. Identity politics at its finest. And I voted for the guy. Two-party systems + lobbying just leads to a choice between bad and worse.

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People deserve what they voted for. Time to lie in the bed you made. Sorry dude.

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Oh I would still vote for Biden over Trump every single time. I just think his administration is playing identity politics too much and too often as a distraction to implementing more progressive policies.

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Assuming that “they” got what the real majority voted for.

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It would be very interesting -- who behind Biden is making all these selections and decisions -- soon we might learn

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I see Biden's diversity picks as his effort to be *precisely what he was elected to be. Nobody is looking to Biden to be Lincoln or Kennedy, Biden is basically the "placeholder" between now and the next presidential election. Biden was elected primarily to be the "UN-Trump" in the White House. Whatever else he does is literally "gravy".

Biden is also, as so many here note, bending over backward to make non-traditional appointments.

Beyond signalling to certain groups by doing so, Biden makes even *seeing "unusual people" in these positions less "shocking", and a bit more "normal". I find myself in the perhaps enviable position of getting far *more out of Biden than I expected, rather than the standard reversal of that phenomenon with most politicians.

Beyond the optics of his appointments, Biden also sends people to appointments who are much more likely to clean all of the Trump-appointed idolaters out of the various highly incompetent Dept. "under-chairs" that Trump overloaded before he left. (State and Pentagon come quickly to mind).

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" Biden was elected primarily to be the "UN-Trump" in the White House."

ALMOST...

Biden was elected primarily to be the "not Bernie Sanders or Tulsi Gabbard" in the White House - two candidates which would have cleaned Trump's clock in a true land-slide.

(It was already clear that TPTB got their favored candidate into the general, and then they likely cheated to get him elected. Unfortunately we can't know about their cheating not because of the Trump claims but simply because our entire electoral process is inherently insecure and subject to manipulation at nearly every point - and that's by design by both Rs and Ds as they both like to cheat, D's mostly in the primaries and Rs mostly in the general elections.)

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I adore each and every one of you brilliant commenteers! (you know who are) and because of you my "spew-my-coffee-through-my-nose" laughter is perhaps singularly keeping the that plan-B lone bullet safe in it's cozy chamber forever!!!

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Social media is generally just an amplifier for the symphony of stupid that passes for "intellect" Taylor Lorenz personifies this. If I see the phrase "White Nationalist" used by anyone in the MSM I immediately tune it out. To them s "White Nationalist" is anyone who might disagree with anything they say.

Keep up the great work Glenn, the world needs journalists like you.

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Agreed. Every time I see the phrase "white supremacist" I start rolling my eyes. Their overuse of that term could cause actual harm because people have stopped taking it seriously. They are going to make it so actual white supremacists can hide under the veneer of being reasonable people who disagree with the status quo.

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Who are these "actual White Supremacists?" Some dork in his basement with Nazi memorabilia? What threat in your mind do they pose? I would be much more worried about the Black Shirts know as AntiFa then 6 losers posting dumb pictures on Instagram.

"White Supremist" like "Fascist" is the professional Left projecting.

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You might enjoy this skit of a woke vs racist:

https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg

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Awesome

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yes yes yes....gimme more from the Ironic Buffet!! I adore each and every one of you brilliant commenteers! (you know who are) and because of you my "spew-my-coffee-through-my-nose" laughter is perhaps singularly keeping the that plan-B lone bullet safe in it's cozy chamber forever!!!

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That was good! Thanks for the link.

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Well said. And do they realize that Fascism (100% State control, 0% individual freedom) is on the far LEFT of the political spectrum?

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There's another axis. Aside from the left-right axis, there is an authoritarian-freedom axis. There can be left-wing totalitarianism (Stalin, Mao) and right-wing totalitarianism (Pinochet). Nazi Germany was a weird hybrid of left and right elements. If we're looking at body count, I think the leftist totalitarians have done more damage, but Pinochet was a monster. I am always anti-totalitarian, but I think there are good ideas on both the left and the right.

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If you haven't seen the world's smallest political quiz, it's worth a look: https://tinyurl.com/yfjed38w

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This is knee-slappingly hillariously wrong:

"And do they realize that Fascism (100% State control, 0% individual freedom) is on the far LEFT of the political spectrum?"

Said by someone who has bought into the ultra-rich's demonization of the ACTUAL left, which THEY abhor because The (actual) Left is what brought in all the Progressive action they loathe, such as Social Security. "The Left" has been demonized since Truman, and you've bought into it.

Congratulations, you're helping our oppressors!

If you want to know something about the ACTUAL left, try this link below. The article is ostebsibly about a two dimensional grid instead of linear continuum for "graphing" one's political position with a seriously complicating twist. BUT, below the graphing stuff, there's a pretty good description of where the terms Left and Right came from, what they meant from inception, and tracking the change in meaning over the ensuing time period.

This was written in the mid-naughts as I recall, and it's notably missing any description of neo-liberalism, which is a form of almost or mostly right-wing politics, and he makes a few other errors or at least points I'd quibble with. But on whole it's worth the read.

I recommend skipping the graph stuff and pick it up about three or four paragraphs above the bolded stand-alone line that reads: "The position of the original "Right" against original Liberalism:"

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/redefining_the_political_spectru.htm

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You might enjoy this skit of a woke vs racist:

https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg

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Don't forget their lame effort of referring to "Trumpism" - their clever way of saying fascism without consequences or accountability.

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Here in Reno there's a restaurant owner under fire for referring to our governor as a "Third Reich leader" in social media. He's being shouted down (harassed, boycotted, etc) by many of the same people who brought us "literally Hitler."

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Your gov is just trying to keep up with mine in California!

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He's not bad. He vetoed the Legislature's Nevadans Are Too Stupid to Vote for President and Should Let California, New York and Texas Vote on Our Behalf law, which I thought was surprisingly clever of him.

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Hadn't heard that. May we trade Newsom for Sisolak. Perhaps a fourth recall will work, and we could trade recalled governors.

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They must be from the Democratic Socialists of America, the DSA, who just took control of the Nevada Democrat Party (forget the official name). Like with the filibuster, Harry Reid pulled another Harry Reid. Has anyone heard from him lately? I'd like to hear his dissembling on the matter.

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He’s sitting back and watching his four (yes you read that right) lobbyist sons reap the rewards of a system their father helped build.

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It was Harry Reid's state machine that was ousted by the DSA.

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My favorite clip of Reid is where he argues that income taxes are voluntary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6q0slMhDw8

Only a mountebank on the public dole for most of his life could say such things.

People like Harry don't actually pay taxes because they produce nothing and live off of other's people's taxes. What they send back to the Feds is a rebate.

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And any attempt to introduce context into any issue is instantly dismissed as "whataboutism" ... the anti-intellectual nature of the Left is truly dismaying.

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I think there are, maybe, 200 actual white supremacists, hiding away in their mountain redoubts. They can't even schedule a meeting: no one dares show up!

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If five white supremacists gather in a room, it’s almost guaranteed that two are FBI agents and two more are informants.

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That was good. Just like the group that was going to kidnap Whitmer.

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It's a boogeyman created by the establishment to keep people distracted from all the evil stuff they are doing. Want stimulus help? $2000 cheques? Medicare for all? Minimum wage? Look squirrel.

Funny thing is that I even disagree with minimum wage and medicare for all but I know exactly what the politicians are doing - distracting their constituents instead of giving what they were voted in for.

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I think it's a way to deflect criticism and cast blame, as Glenn has been saying. If you criticize Janet Yellen, you're a misogynist, but no one bats an eyelash if you criticize Ivanka Trump. If you criticize Kamala Harris, you're a racist, but no one bats an eyelash if you criticize Ben Carson. I think it's dangerous because if someone is a victim of an actual hate crime, their integrity is going to be questioned. People won't believe them because this rhetoric keeps being used by liberals to denigrate their political opponents.

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Exactly. They will attack Tulsi Gabbard relentlessly but then claim attacking Kamala Harris (as Gabbard did, sinking her primary run) is sexist and racist.

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Tulsi's takedown of Kamala Harris was my favorite part of the democratic primaries. I was glad someone finally said it, and I was doubly glad it was Tulsi.

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The immune system is not designed to attack its own body.

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But it does sometimes anyway.

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The more paranoid among us are expecting a false flag operation which will be blamed on white supremacists, which will be the impetus for major new restrictions on gun ownership. Anyone who resists will be labeled a 'white supremacist' of course, with all the personal jeopardy that entails.

True facts: during the 2017 Charlottesville Unite the Right rally, antifa activists and "white supremacists" were filmed unloading from the same buses.

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If you are really curious, you should check out the history of who organized that “unite the right” rally/ Jason Kessler. Dig into his past and see if something’s blatantly fishy. I will leave it at that.

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I can totally see them doing that. They are already using the supposedly major threat to keep the barbed wire fence around the capitol and to erode civil liberties. Of course they would want to ensure that the populace is unarmed. Can't have anyone fighting back, you know.

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An old but effective method.

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It's a boogeyman created by the establishment to keep people distracted from all the evil stuff they are doing. Want stimulus help? $2000 cheques? Medicare for all? Minimum wage? Look squirrel.

Funny thing is that I even disagree with minimum wage and medicare for all but I know exactly what the politicians are doing - distracting their constituents instead of giving what they were voted in for.

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So far not a peep from corporate media about DNC and Biden massive and global corruption -- well, Hunter is writing a book but that will be left out...

Love your - "look squirrel"

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One way to avoid future disappointment is by simply not expecting anyone to be held accountable in the first place. If orange man couldn’t drain the swamp, then there’s very little hope of accountability.

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There's always hope. Orange man couldn't do it, but -- to use a favored phrase of the virtue-signalling class -- he dramatically raised awareness of the true breadth and depth of the problem. The excesses of TDS, cancel culture, etc. turn off more normal, reasonable people every day. The result will be a grassroots push-back that we can see taking shape already.

The Empire struck back and took the election from Trump, but that does not mean the war is over. It's really only just beginning.

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No, this war began a LONG, LONG time ago, BEFORE the founding of the USA. In the 1930s, with FDR, We, The People got a surprise champion and they've been chipping at our gains since then and have by now pretty well rolled it all back - maybe not in every spot, but they've invented some new places to oppress us to make up for it.

However, things REALLY took a turn for the worse in the election of 1980 when the Republicans bribed the newly installed leaders of Iran to keep the US hostages until after the U.S. elections in the FIRST of TWO arms-for-hostages deals that the Reagan administration did. That lost us a hell of a lot.

AND, in that election cycle, we lost universal health-care - we know now that he's dead that the asshole who killed universal health care was the so-called "Lion of the Senate", Teddy Kennedy, who was trying to primary Jimmy Carter and who killed it because he didn't want Carter to have the win on his record going into the primary. 😡

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I hope he will -- I see that very few posters are subscribers though...

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I subscribe

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Than why just I have this new badge? Because I use my real name and description? I am glad they didn't publish my phone number also ;-))

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When I mouse over your red badge it says "founding member."

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Oh - thanks, much appreciated.

Kamala will likely send her Mind-control squad soon.

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I signed up on the day we got word Glenn had left The Intercept, but I apparently have no badge?! Did you know about his account BEFORE that?! Otherwise, I have badge-envy! 😟

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Thanks for making me feel better that the badge isn't showing on mine!

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I am a paid member to but don’t have that badge. Your badge says “founding member”.

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I thought you had to subscribe to post

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You do.

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I could be wrong but only paid members can comment on Substack, so he’s getting good engagement. I am a paid member myself and don’t have that symbol you have. Your symbol means you were one of the founding members (either subscribed for long time or you pay more) whereas I joined in January. Glenn is also one of the top 5 authors on Substack I remember hearing.

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Many thanks for explanation !!

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I don’t think one can comment without being a subscriber. Am I wrong?

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Tocno ;-))

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That’s what I think too.

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To balance all the hate that your truthful and purposeful journalism has generated, here's a psychic group hug from all your subscribers and readers to you and your family. Here's to good health and safety forever.

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I love your articles, Glenn. Please keep at it even though I'm sure the extent of the abuse coming your way is staggering. We appreciate it. It's shocking how they attacked Donald Trump full time in the most uncivilized ways possible, but HE is not allowed to criticize them back. Civilized? These people are THE most uncivilized and patronizing elitists arrogant excuses for humans. The hubris is breath-taking. Thank you, again, Glenn. I pass your work around a lot.

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For such a triple-plus mega fascist, no one anywhere was afraid to criticize Trump.

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Right. It was crazy. They could threaten him physically, call him a traitor and Hitler but he just made these "mean" tweets back, calling them "fake." Unreal. :)

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For all his personality flaws, did he not show us the way?

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He illuminated a lot of things and showed us we needed to stand up to these people--he did indeed reveal just who they are. Flaw and all.

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And we need more DJTs, flaws and all. Policy matters, personality not so much.

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Shots aimed at Glenn are proliferating. Sam Seder pushed some nauseating nonsense yesterday, claiming Glenn has gone “off the rails.” I actually used to sub Majority Report. Almost unbelievable to me. Garbage.

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Glenn Greenwald is a hero. There is nothing more threatening to freedom all over the world than what has been happening here and the overt and subtle ways the left is driving to shut down speech. It all boils down to the fact that THEY should be allowed to say anything; we should be silenced and must never question these idiots. I hope Glenn and his family stay safe.

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LeK, you are entitled to your beliefs, but I would ask you to consider only this:

There really, truly is no "Left" monolith, any more than there's an "Arab viewpoint" or an "Inscrutable Chinese mind." NeoLiberal PC, for example, is not only not "Left, " but actually anti-Left. (please see Boris Petrov's comment,"Please stop calling.....") Within the ruling factions, everything left or right is purely for the edification of the credulous, maintaining the same old same old circus where people can holler out their aggression at each other instead of e v e r , for just one moment, unifying and effectively opposing b o t h sides of the oligarchic echo chamber. Stereo was invented a long time ago......

Glenn's intellectual integrity is why he has support across the spectrum. All sacred cows will be gored on sight. Getting rid of ideological blinders is what allows us to focus on our areas of agreement and move effectively to neutralize the Fogmeisters, but that requires me to shelve m y favorite emotional hot buttons so I can hear. You aw

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Well said, Andrew - exactly.

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Please stop calling Democrat fascists -- "left"

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So is GG's support proliferating, if I am not mistaken. Let's make him too big to destroy.

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That's right. I'm sure what they hate the most is that since it's the left who are behaving like fascists right now, Glenn is getting a conservative audience. But I will at least read everything he has to say from now on. Anyone with any brains knows that elitism (especially any time it's combined with censorship) is the real enemy and I will oppose ANY party abusing this power. As should everyone. It's shocking that this is even happening in America. We have a short window to restore our freedom from lockdowns and from being silenced. People like Glenn are huge to getting that to happen.

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-ahem- it's not "the left" whose "behaving like fascists", its neo-liberals you errantly confuse as "left", plus, of course, the neo-conservatives and the ultra-rich. All three of those are definitely fascists, though there may be a FEW of the ultra-rich who are not. For example, I don't think Elon Musk is a fascist, though Bezos certainly is...

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It is now obvious that we have now entered a new phase -- beyond "just" chronic bi-partisan corruption. The recent letter by two California House "lifers" Democrats Anna Eshoo and Jerry McNerney to CEO's of cable companies are truly unparalleled and represents the rise of fascism in the US -- under a guise of "fighting fascism." All these multiple attacks are clearly carefully choreographed and coordinated -- we should always keep in mind that there is one huge elephant in the room:

The scam of the century - the now 5-year long Russia-gate hoax initiated by Obama/Biden administration

The Russia-gate hoax and two-impeachment “entertainments” were concocted by Obama/Hillary/Biden/Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jamie Ruskin, etc., etc. -- and their intelligence and DNC executives on behalf of their Wall Street and military and security industry donors, i.e., the War party. By far the absolutely highest need of Biden government and its DNC oligarch cabal is that Russia-gate immense hoax – the scam of the century -- will NOT / will NEVER be exposed.

This represents a new phase of US domestic politics (on foreign policy oligarchs of both parties are united). Hence immense obligations to primary propagandists for their roles, including despicable Kamala Harris (Hillary’s protégé), Neera Tanden, Melissa Hodgman (wife of the Comey’s infamous Peter Strzok), Pete Buttigieg, etc, and media executives.

The question is perhaps: Who will be the first Democrat Congressman or Senator to publicly confirm the Russia-gate conspiracy? There is absolutely no "unity and healing" until that... Trump’s utter incompetence in handling Covid-19 created the human and economic catastrophe that should enter US history named as - Trump-virus. He brought into government religious extremism and racism. The next "Trump" will be more competent and more dangerous.

Democrats are now introducing extreme measures -- massive censorship and silencing of opponents. This is a sure sign of utter desperation of DNC corrupt and sclerotic leadership and its likely defeat and obliteration in next (including mid-term) elections.

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Just how was Trump incompetent? If anything, he shouldn't have shut down the economy at all, but since we didn't know what we were dealing with, he had to get hospitals geared away or they would have crucified him even more. Trump did NOT bring racism or religious extremism into government. You are fucking crazy. The left lied about what Trump said and who he is and you clearly bought it. And he wasn't really all that religious, but he stood up for religious freedom.

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I thought that I illustrated one of thousand examples. Assassinating top Iranian general who defeated Al Qaeda and saved Shiites from genocide by murderous Sunnis is another example.

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Yes, sometime by around the early '90s, the Democrats became the Republicans of,say, 1980, and permitted the Republicans to move right into batshitcrazy territory, which they happily did.

It's so odd to hear people buy into the propaganda that the Democrats, since at least that time, are "left" - it's just utterly ridiculous.

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Donald Trump 'wants FDA to approve oleander plant extract as a drug to cure Covid-19' after it was promoted by Ben Carson (a bible-idiot -- "pyramids were built by St. Joseph to store wheat") and MyPillow founder - despite no proof that it works

• Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson and MyPillow boss Mike Lindell, a big Trump supporter, have urged Trump to look at the botanical extract

• Meeting arranged by the pair with a director at company developing the product

• Andrew Whitney, of Phoenix Biotechnology, claims he is '100%' sure it's a cure

• But there is no peer-reviewed study to support the claim

• Lindell says that in the meeting, Trump 'basically said the FDA should approve it'

• Senior administration official expressed deep concern that Carson and Lindell were 'pushing a dubious product at the highest levels' during the pandemic

By ROSS IBBETSON -- PUBLISHED: 05:03 EDT, 17 August 2020

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p.s. The whole point is that government is NOT your parent. I want all the information out there--particularly when this was such an emergency. I then research -- like I always do -- discuss things with my doctor, and we proceed accordingly. I don't count on the government, the CDC even, or the left wing media (OR Donald Trump) to make treatment programs. And to assume people can't do the same is idiot leftist garbage. NOTHING was "studied" or peer reviewed. So guess what, you could try things that doctors said they'd had success with (YOUR CHOICE) OR you could wait until the FDA approved it all, OR you could just go ahead and die. God, get real. Ludicrous.

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In deadly pandemic a swift action with methods proven and well known for hundreds of years is mandatory.

Later you cam leisurely discuss with your doctor how rude was Chinese government to impose strictest lockdowns and door-to-door contact tracing.

You can't find virus with your imbecilic ideology and beliefs

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Lockdowns are NOT working. Science does not support that or that masks work. And swift action with all available information, that you and your doctor use, is the best thing to do. Contact tracing is not going to work when the virus is this widespread, either.

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"the left wing media" doesn't exist, and hasn't since the 1970s, save a TINY fraction of very small organizations or even individuals - as a practical matter, it doesn't exist. What you're talking about is neo-liberal media which is controlled by the ultra-rich, just like they control most other media.

The assertion, "NOTHING was "studied" or peer reviewed" is a false statement. ... Back on The Intercept we had Fred Cowan, who I became friends with (but who, alas, didn't follow us here in the big exodus when Greenwald left TI), who is exactly the right kind of specialist and he told us then, and privately can tell me / us now, how wrong you are. ... Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it perhaps just means you're not as good at doing research as you think you are.

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Oh gees, all these stories are such GARBAGE. There were a lot of things doctors were experimenting with -- some approved for other uses -- and the point is it is between your DOCTOR AND YOU. Donald Trump said that repeatedly. And Ben Carson IS a doctor. That just shows they were open to whatever might work since it was so new. WHO CARES. Just talk to your doctor and decide how you want to approach it and stop writing bullshit crazy stuff like this.

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Insufficient media coverage is on the extent of just how much evangelical fundamentalists (the Rupture End-Time Christians) dominate ALL levels of US government. Corona virus human and economic catastrophe in the US will likely end up being called – the Trump virus.

• Evangelical anti-science idiot, Trump’s VP Mike Pence, has been installed to lead the pandemic fight as Corona virus tsar

• Evangelical Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State insane clown who considers Trump as the coming Christian King

• Evangelical Jerome Adams, now US Surgeon General was the state health commissioner under Governor Mike Pence during AIDS epidemic (he acts like he already “Ruptured” to another world

• Evangelical Bible idiot Ben Carson, Housing Secretary – famous for stating that Egyptian pyramids were built by St. Joseph for wheat storage; always reassuring when he stands next to Trump during our Great Leader blabbers

• Evangelical Robert Redfield, installed to run critical organization CDC (Center for Disease Control and Prevention) as its director in 2018 (he immediately increased his salary to almost $0.5M) decided to develop an American, hence superior test kit (despite that Chinese scientists in a record short time provided full virus genome and Germans and others developed a test kit adopted by WHO). The new “superior and our” test kits failed and much delayed testing – resulting that in the entire February only 256 people were tested?!? – the crime of a century. Redfield was on a board of the largest evangelical anti-gay organization while for a decade unsuccessfully developing AIDS vaccine (and fabricating results)….

• Evangelical Deborah Birx, White House Corona virus response coordinator managed anti-AIDS international $6.3B fund – like Redfield focusing on – abstinence

• Evangelical Betsy DeVos, Education Secretary and a sister of evangelical Eric Prince (founder of Blackwater – runs Trump’s private army)

• And an endless number of government and military evangelical officials financed by now almost limitless government resources

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It is known for 100+ years how to control virus epidemics -- isolation, rapid contact tracing, masks and hygiene (hands washing with soap), etc., etc.

There was NOTHING new to "discover". Incompetent Trump voted himself out.

OK both parties are also skilled in voter count fraud, some better than other from time to time

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Masks were never prescribed for viruses. WHEN did that happen? Never in my lifetime. And they quarantined the SICK, not the well. And no, the right is not skilled in voter fraud. But it appears they will have to get better at it since cheating is going to be the law of the land.

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You might want to try reading "Deadliest Enemy" by Dr Michael Osterholm, because he doesn't agree with you. And as one of the top epidemiologists in the US who has been on the front lines of the government response to every major epidemic in the last few decades, he's not exactly a nobody.

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Why did you have to add “ a bible-idiot” for Ben Carson but exclude “world class neurosurgeon surgeon”? That alone makes me ignore whatever you are saying because I can’t trust whatever you are saying to include context.

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Because it is a correct description -- remember him stating that "Egyptian pyramids were built by St. Joseph to store wheat"... How would you better describe any adult human blabbering such idiotic nonsense?

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I for one question the "world class" part.

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I find it amazing that on one hand we are here debating how media is the enemy of the people and then we have comments like this which fully make up their minds based on what media reports...

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Donald Trump 'wants FDA to approve oleander plant extract as a drug to cure Covid-19' after it was promoted by Ben Carson and MyPillow founder - despite no proof that it works

• Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson and MyPillow boss Mike Lindell, a big Trump supporter, have urged Trump to look at the botanical extract

• Meeting arranged by the pair with a director at company developing the product

• Andrew Whitney, of Phoenix Biotechnology, claims he is '100%' sure it's a cure

• But there is no peer-reviewed study to support the claim

• Lindell says that in the meeting, Trump 'basically said the FDA should approve it'

• Senior administration official expressed deep concern that Carson and Lindell were 'pushing a dubious product at the highest levels' during the pandemic

By ROSS IBBETSON -- PUBLISHED: 05:03 EDT, 17 August 2020

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Your comment was doing okay until you brought up “trump brought in racism” and your “trump virus” nonsense. What? If I wanted to listen to MSNPC talking points, I would switch on the TV.

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Insufficient media coverage is on the extent of just how much evangelical fundamentalists (the Rupture End-Time Christians) dominate ALL levels of US government. Corona virus human and economic catastrophe in the US will likely end up being called – the Trump virus.

• Evangelical anti-science idiot, Trump’s VP Mike Pence, has been installed to lead the pandemic fight as Corona virus tsar

• Evangelical Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State insane clown who considers Trump as the coming Christian King

• Evangelical Jerome Adams, now US Surgeon General was the state health commissioner under Governor Mike Pence during AIDS epidemic (he acts like he already “Ruptured” to another world

• Evangelical Bible idiot Ben Carson, Housing Secretary – famous for stating that Egyptian pyramids were built by St. Joseph for wheat storage; always reassuring when he stands next to Trump during our Great Leader blabbers

• Evangelical Robert Redfield, installed to run critical organization CDC (Center for Disease Control and Prevention) as its director in 2018 (he immediately increased his salary to almost $0.5M) decided to develop an American, hence superior test kit (despite that Chinese scientists in a record short time provided full virus genome and Germans and others developed a test kit adopted by WHO). The new “superior and our” test kits failed and much delayed testing – resulting that in the entire February only 256 people were tested?!? – the crime of a century. Redfield was on a board of the largest evangelical anti-gay organization while for a decade unsuccessfully developing AIDS vaccine (and fabricating results)….

• Evangelical Deborah Birx, White House Corona virus response coordinator managed anti-AIDS international $6.3B fund – like Redfield focusing on – abstinence

• Evangelical Betsy DeVos, Education Secretary and a sister of evangelical Eric Prince (founder of Blackwater – runs Trump’s private army)

• And an endless number of government and military evangelical officials financed by now almost limitless government resources

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👍

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Thank you, Glenn. This is mostly women who use feminism as a shield to pull this “I'm so oppressed” power play. And when it comes to supporting strong women who actually speak out for the real oppression of women - real feminists like Aayan Hirsi Ali in her new book Prey - they demonize her. The Taylor Lorenzes of the world know they're worthless hacks for their puppet masters. If they had a shred of real conviction that they're doing something worthwhile they might be bothered (who wouldn't be) by the hatred that gets thrown at them, they'd get over it after a drink. But they're too concerned with not getting exposed as frauds.

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Back in 1970 the men in my life wanted me to attend "woman's liberation" meetings. I did twice and saw that I had nothing in common with them. Feminism has now been weaponized. I saw it coming.

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Well said. It seems that the righting of past wrongs, and the attaining of equal rights, is never enough for these special interest groups. They must be afforded special, exalted status and allowed to "lord it over" their historical detractors.

As Orwell (who posts here, and changes his icon, wink, wink) said, some animals are more "equal" than others.

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So true. MLK dreamed of a colorblind society. If he gave his "I Have a Dream" speech today, I'm not sure he wouldn't be criticized for excusing and enabling white privilege,. . . Or something.

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Hopefully one day we will be "woke" enough to judge people by their character and not on their superficial characteristics.

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We skipped right over that simply because there is no political utility in doing so.

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I wish I could like your comment but I don't see the little hearts anymore.

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Remember, I'm the one who didn't even notice your "superficial characteristics" for a long time. Now, I think they are quite good looking!

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Nobody can accuse you of having bad taste ;)

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The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

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When I was a young pup lawyer, I went to my first women's bar association meeting. I'd never seen a more whiney, irrational meeting in my life. It was taken for granted as a foundational premise, and not a topic for exploration or discussions, that women attorneys were disadvantaged and discriminated against, and the only topic worth discussing was how to fight back in the most harpy-like manner possible. That was the end of that.

Yes, there is sexism in the profession, but not every male is guilty of it, not every professional disparity is attributable to sexism, and many powerful female attorneys are assholes who will abuse and undermine other women. None of these topics were addressed. You just had to don your monolithic victim hat and plot revenge. I could not relate on any level.

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Those men were feminists. This is NOT a misogynic, nor a sexist statement. Masculine is an "opposite" of feminine, but Masculism is not a word. Feminism is about equality of the "sexes," not the substitution of matriarchy for patriarchy.

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While I understand your distinction, I’ve always found the term lacking. The goal is supposedly equal treatment. Assigning a name to the movement that is based on differentiation is counterproductive, unless of course the goal was never really about equal treatment.

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Agreed, but women have been historically marginalized, so....

Oh, heck, I blame Woodrow Wilson.

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It WAS about equal treatment, or more accurately equal rights. It got hijacked by modernity, to put it nicely. Still there are good feminists (male and female, and every other category), and then there are Statists.

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Agree.

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The left has come to show us that women can be as big a dick as a man, isn’t that lovely?! And that’s not a transgender comment, that showing you that women can be as ruthlessly cruel and flagrantly brutal as any man…

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No, known it for years, it’s just becoming so prevalent, eventually some of the most despicable disgusting murderers of humanity will be women…

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All three CEOs of US largest arms manufacturers are now -- females. Makes wars more palatable..

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Yes, we are being played like a violin...

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Thanks -- a very nice post

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The NY Times has lost its relevance. Pre-internet it had some value if only for the international reach of its correspondents network, gathering information that other media outfits could not. There was some value to that infrastructure, even if liberally biased. (There were also standards and a sense of integrity then). With so many online sources available at the click now, and so many thoughtful writers to choose from, why would anyone still subscribe to the Times? The Times is living off its fumes of a reputation, relying on its appeal to the pseudo intellectual seeking validation and virtue. True critical thinkers looks elsewhere. GG is a good start.

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Sadly, it's enjoying its highest circulation/subscriber base ever, and the riches that come with a large flock of bleating hearts waiting to be sheared...

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A number of people subscribe for the food section/recipes. Unfortunately, I’m not kidding.

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Yup, as well as the comics, horoscope, and especially crossword.

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I subscribe to their crossword puzzle app. Wonder if they count that?!

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sure they do- for marketing

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It was a conscious decision by Sulzberger and a few others, and directly as a consequence of the advent of the direct-to-the-people internet. They felt they had to choose sides to preserve even today's decreasing sales. Unfortunately for the people, they chose the State.

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Wow. I think this may be the best essay you've written since starting the substack. Definitely my personal favorite at least. Honestly should be in the running for a commentary award. The phenomenon you're writing about is so dangerous, and much more of threat to *actual* press freedom than anything these folks are complaining about, precisely because it obscures what is actually at stake. Thanks for writing.

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The phenomenon of "cancel culture" has its another and much older term -- censorship

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Ah but cancel culture is more venomous than that. It's censorship plus personal destruction.

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Censorship + deflection of legitimate criticism of powerful people by calling it "harrassment".

Which ends up silencing most voices, leaving only the powerful with platforms to speak and reach/influence people. Censorship is an accurate description of course, but this all seems more sinister that I feel the word 'censorship' doesn't fully capture what's going on. Especially since the word typically makes people think that it's all coming from above, and in this case it's seeped in culturally in a wierd way and is even self-imposed. But on the upside, if it's even somewhat that, at least that means we have more opportunity/agency to do something about it, where that might not be the case as much in cases of traditional censorship.

Which I guess we're all fighting back against somewhat in our own way by subscribing to Glenn's substack and supporting independent and non-legacy media!

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Agreed, at least one of the best!

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Your critique strikes at the heart of identity politics and "intersectionality". How do the wealthiest and most powerful maintain their position on the top of the social pyramid when social capital is based on victimhood? By creating a system that doles out social capital based on how full your identity bingo card of perceived historical oppression is, without regard to wealth or power at all! As you rightfully point out, you are only allowed to shout, "bingo!" if you sing the establishment tune and blindly support all of the establishment's pieties. Any criticism of a Woman Of Color is immediately regarded as a racist and sexist attack, regardless of the merits of that criticism, unless that Woman Of Color has her own opinions or questions any establishment narratives (as evidenced by the myriad of smears and attacks suffered by Tulsi Gabbard, who went from darling of the DNC to pariah overnight for opposing Hillary Clinton).

Certainly the scummiest and most villainous of this crowd are those who willfully and consciously deploy this hypocritical rhetoric to gain power and political capital, but they aren't the only ones at fault here. Those who sing the identity politics tune and follow establishment marching orders because they are cowards who, despite knowing that their behavior is despicable, go along with it anyway deserve a fair share of the blame. But so do those who have internalized this behavior, and act out of true conviction. As adults, we are all responsible for our own behavior. It is our responsibility to know better. There is no practical difference between the person who burns you at the stake because they are a true believer and the person who feigns belief while burning you at the stake because they fear the mob.

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I don't even agree with Tulsi on tons of things but I know what they did to her was wrong. Google banning her Ads, news media calling her a russian agent, not given time at the debates etc. First they came for Alex Jones and Milo. Then they came for Tulsi Gabbard.

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The Reagan Administration hid under the much more elegant sobriquet for "fake news" by invoking their "right" to "Perception Management", you know, "propaganda" and/or brainwashing by another name.

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You don't even agree with Tulsi on tons of things -- it would be interesting to know:

-- Few specific examples of disagreement

-- Would you vote for her as a president of a third party?

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Well I can’t vote for her even if I wanted because I am Canadian lol. But I wouldn’t have voted for her because of her anti-2A stance. Nobody will ever get my support if they don’t support 2A. I also don’t support federal minimum wage. Different states have different costs of living and manufacturing goods etc. Federal minimum wage makes zero sense. Also minimum wage would kill small businesses. AOC doesn’t tell people but her own previous employer The Coffee Shop shut down 2 years ago (before covid) because of a $2 raise in minimum wage in NY. There’s a reason why Amazon was encouraging minimum wage hikes- because they know they can afford it and it would remove their competition from small businesses. What really should be done is city by city basis and only for larger corporations. Let’s say if a branch makes more than X in profits or gives more than Y in ceo compensation, then they have minimum wage at that branch.

I also wish she had spoken out against censorship and the russiagate stuff before they came for her. It’s like she didn’t understand how right wingers felt until it happened to her.

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Thank you. I think you have confused AOC with my beloved Tulsi Gabbard. I also don't know what is 2A.

Always remember Tulsi's epic response after Hillary brazenly accused her of being a Russian asset:

"Great! Thank you @HillaryClinton . You, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long, have finally come out from behind the curtain. From the day I announced my candidacy, there has been a concerted campaign to destroy my reputation. We wondered who was behind it and why. Now we know — it was always you, through your proxies and powerful allies in the corporate media and war machine, afraid of the threat I pose. It’s now clear that this primary is between you and me. Don’t cowardly hide behind your proxies. Join the race directly".

It always cheers me up.

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Yep, that was a GREAT statement she made!

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Call me jaded but those “epic” lines are good entertainment but not much substance when the DNC is going to rig everything against her and in favor of the person she roasted.

2A = second amendment.

On which point did I confuse tulsi with AOC? Tulsi said she was pro raising the federal minimum wage in the debates.

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How about in 2024 - in a third party -- although, I know, still no chance?

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Great comments!

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The biggest determinant single factor in the quality of anyone persons life is their socioeconomic status. However socioeconomic status is completely out of the question as a primary driver, only when you check a race, gender, etc box or two first does your lack of wealth get brought up.

Insidiously this tamps down both the poor white rural portion that makes life swath of the countries landlocked states

While also insulating the elites from criticism because money socioeconomic class has been purposefully left out of intersectinaly.

They get to have their cake and eat too and get to make you watch while they tell you how awful it is to have to eat cake

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Is socioeconomic status the biggest factor in a person's quality of life? That hasn't been my experience.

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Poor and working-class Americans are reluctant and ashamed to claim victimhood, but no such qualms from the well-off!

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Right? Working class people don't have time for all that nonsense.

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More than that, they have too much self-respect. Most actual "victims" *don't* want to be thought of as victims.

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That's true. Also, working class people are so used to just powering through discomfort that something has to be really bad for them to seek help. I think middle class and wealthy people will seek therapy for childhood trauma, for instance, but a working class person is more likely to ignore it unless they can't. Too many limits on time, money, etc.

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This brought back many memories. I was a senior manager for a team of team leaders plus a few individual performers at a Fortune 500 company. One employee was brilliant, a well-rounded technology expert, with whom no one would work. She could not work in a team and redefined others' roles, disparaged their abilities, and was an all-around jerk. She had baldly lied to a client, she had refused to do her work on a company-owned computer and refused to provide copies of work in progress. She was also a M2F transsexual. I fired her. HR called me and ordered me to reinstate her because she was transsexual and that created a potential liability in a lawsuit. I refused.

If equal treatment is the goal, it cannot apply only to beneficial actions. Rules disallowing criticism of or adverse actions regarding a marginalized person are destructive. They're perpetuating the marginalization. Not being able to fire a jerk for whom firing would be unquestioned in a biological male or female is discriminatory. How can we reduce discrimination in the workplace by making some animals more equal than others.

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My mother was serving on the EEOC when she worked for the federal government. She was investigating an alleged case of racism, where someone filed a complaint saying she wasn't getting raises because she was a black woman. Fortunately, the supervisor had a LOT of direct reports, so my mother could point to the data and say, "all the other black women in the department are getting regular raises. The problem is your performance."

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Thanks for not being a pushover Bill, we need more fair-minded, principled people like you at companies and institutions of all sizes.

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Since many male to female transsexuals today are autogynephiles and narcissists by definition (see Blanchard, other researchers--all of whom have received death threats and even had their children threatened), I'm not surprised. Transsexuals 30 years ago were simply homosexuals who felt extremely female and feminine from an early age, and deserved (and deserve) the same dignity as all LGB people. We know some now--and their need for basic civil rights has been hijacked by a bunch of histrionic woman-haters.

Given the rampant misogynistic, pedophiliac hate pornography that fetishizes a man being forced to turn into a female while females watch, what is called "transgenderism" must be occupied by at least 50% incels who finally gave up and decided to, in their own LITERAL words, "become the hot girl you always wanted but could never have." And they mean "girl." They mean 13-year-old girls, because their social media is plastered with pink ponies, sparkles, and discussions about having their first period and how mean their parents were for forcing them to go through puberty. Becoming a trans woman is the surest way to center themselves in the middle of everything, making it about men, and forcing women to speak their language for sexual, transgressive thrill.

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Said brilliantly-- thank you--

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Love the Animal Farm reference

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Legacy fake news media is for retarded monkeys. Too many good sources to willingly listen to propaganda and infotainment.

Follow GG, Sharyl Atkisson, Sara Carter, Full Measure News, Kim Strassel. Get it from the horse’s mouth C-Span. Watch your state and local agency and legislative meetings on zoom. Read the documents they release. You won’t have much time left over for Dancing With The Stars or Rachel Maddow.

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Hmmm, great way to encourage a discussion with "legacy fake news media" watchers - referring to them as "retarded monkeys" ....

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Yes, but it is accurate, and something needs to hasten their evolution. And I have a brother with Down Syndrome, but "retarded" never bothers him or his 3 loving brothers.

And it certainly doesn't approach calling them "deplorables," although we DO want them to change the way they vote.

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Good for you and your brothers!

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Thank you! Older bro Dan is 62 (!), way past his time (Alzheimer's), but his three younger keepers (60, 58, 56) can make him smile, usually with a mixed beverage and a lot of yelling (his hearing aids don't fit his retarded ears too well!). He was high-functioning once, a repository, nay, an encyclopedia of all things Elvis, pop music, and baseball (yes, he knew more than you), and a luckier, more blessed human being you will never find, until you meet me.

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When Glenn characterizes this demand among media elites as a caste problem, I think he gets it right. It's one caste at the top trying to tamp down any response from all the lowly, fed-up castes. I hadn't quite thought of this phenomenon in those terms. But looking back on my career in journalism (at three major US newspapers), I can certainly recall evidence of this type of arrogance among the newsroom staff in the form of occasional displays of contempt for their own readers. I confess, I didn't devote much thought to this until (oddly) the breakup of Yugoslavia.

You may recall that the US press routinely and insistently vilified the Serbs in those years, but in the city I was living in at the time there were Serbian-American spokesmen who sought to tell their side of events. To little avail. The story line was what it was, and any attempt to provide a different perspective was brushed aside.

While I don't wish to minimize the horrors of those years and the Serbian share of culpability, it struck me that it was unlikely that Serbia was a 100% villain across the course of those struggles. Serbian-Americans deserved at least a hearing by which their case could be fairly considered. That never happened, and it was largely due to a dismissive newsroom attitude that effectively silenced the voice of a significant fraction of the paper's readership at the time.

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The best line for me is " What I ultimately find most repellent and offensive about this incessant self-victimization from society’s most powerful and privileged actors is the conceit that they are somehow unique or special in the treatment they receive, as if it only happens to people like them. That is the exact opposite of reality" Exactly! How does a boarding school upbringing for Ms. Lorenz propel her to NYTimes? Education or friends?

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They have been told all their life they are unique and special and believe it with every fiber in their bodies and soul (if they still have one).

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Exactly. Those " best in participation" " most congenial" awards they got at private schools for everything didn't hurt in creating this "special status"

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Let's be honest, the editors who handle a lot of this stuff aren't geniuses. Especially these days, editors rotate around from section to section and are looking at huge, complicated stories involving subjects they have little expertise in. Once a paper finds a lens on a story that fits its ideology, doesn't depart too-too much from the mainstream perspective, and has sufficient nuance to give it a patina of intellectualism, they'll go with that and move on to the next item.

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That's the thing. As someone who's spent years in academia, my experience has been that by far the dumbest students and faculty are those in education and journalism. I'll use the "anonymity" of the net here to say that people with 115 IQs have been the bane of my existence. They're smart enough to fool less intelligent people that they actually know something, but not smart enough to actually critically interrogate their arrogant, mediocre certainties. I say this with the usual caveats about the social construction of IQ, of recognizing that there are all forms of intelligence, that orality and literacy are psychological substrates. Yada yada yada. The 1+ standard deviation is a placeholder. But y'all know what I mean.

Arrogant, mediocre, and d.u.m.b.

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Dunning-Kruger Effect. If you’re not already familiar, look it up, study it , understand it, and you’ll see instances of it all around you.

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Agreed. I find the trend over the last 20 years has been anyone with money (no correlation with education there) will send their similar progeny to private schools not necessarily ( I live in Toronto Canada) because the education is so superior, but to meet " the right people". Its who you know not what you know.

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Amen

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Your take is very confusing for me because it equivocates between readers and subject. In covering a civil war that included attempted genocide they took sides, and thereby demonstrated contempt for those among their own readers who had an ethnic stake in the war?

But only a tiny fraction of their readers had any connection to the war so it would be strange if it even occurred to them that taking sides in the civil war was a means of showing contempt toward _readers_.

Do you happen to be Serbian yourself?

Equivocation makes more sense now that they're covering a cold civil war in their own country, so they're participants pretending to be observers. Maybe that's what you're getting at?

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No, I have no Serbian blood. Scandinavian and Welsh.

And the fractional nature of the readership -- which wasn't really small, BTW -- is simply not relevant with the task of trying to get a clearer and fuller picture of the situation. Even if local Serbian-Americans hadn't said a word, it should still have been incumbent on journalists to try to tell the full story.

I'll concede that the Serb side MAY have borne, say, 99% of the blame for all that happened. But I simply don't trust any narrative that paints one side in any conflict as 100.00% evil and the other side as perfect angels. This kind of fairytale may be appealing and win lots of readers and viewers, but it amounts to sheer propaganda.

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... perhaps, but there is still Srebrenica -- a methodical slaughter of seven thousands of Bosniak men and boys -- that were "protected" there by UN troops.

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If I were a totalitarian for a day, 7+billion human slaves would spend 24 hours reading and rereading this story. The next day, the world would be free.

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A kindred soul was singing your tune back in the 1700s :

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." ~ Johann Wolfgang Goethe

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Or, more recently, "The slave is unaware of his chains until he tries to move." R. Luxembourg

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Perhaps he said it more than once but I know that quote differently: "He who does not move does not notice his chains."

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Hmm...no, not what I meant. Remember, the next day, I am no longer the totalitarian, and I would hope no one, now that the world was GG "educated," could take my place as such. But I think you, and Mr. Goethe, are talking about freedom from want, which is humanly impossible. I am talking about true freedom, freedom from State, from totalitarianism.

And, of course, my wish is not even a thought experiment, only an expression of desire that people wake up and make their own coffee, not stick their palms out.

What if I rewrite my last sentence thusly: The next day, Authoritarian Socialism would be a thing of the past, and true freedom a possibility once again.

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Goethe was part of the Enlightenment in Europe, which began in the 1600s with DeCarte and, later Isaac Newton with his seminal work "Principia Mathematica".

As primarily a scientific and philosophical movement, the Enlightenment was pulling masses of Europeans away from the traditional *grip of the Church in Rome.

So, perhaps you can take comfort in the idea that Goethe, you and I, were quite likely *all on the "same page" ! ;-D

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A major mystery is - what happened in the US versus the rest of the globe. In the US even evolution is often a "sensitive" subject. Why overall our country is so backward?

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Now that *is a head-scratcher. I am 72 years of age, and I rarely meet Americans in their 20s and 30s who could pass tests we took in grade school, much less in High School. Colleges are now expensive, but weakened versions of what public High School used to be.

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Thank you -- maybe evolution doesn't work well in the US - science should analyze it ;-))

Insufficient media coverage is on the extent of just how much evangelical fundamentalists (the Rupture End-Time Christians) dominate ALL levels of US government. Corona virus human and economic catastrophe in the US will likely end up being called – the Trump virus.

• Evangelical anti-science idiot, Trump’s VP Mike Pence, has been installed to lead the pandemic fight as Corona virus tsar

• Evangelical Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State insane clown who considers Trump as the coming Christian King

• Evangelical Jerome Adams, now US Surgeon General was the state health commissioner under Governor Mike Pence during AIDS epidemic (he acts like he already “Ruptured” to another world

• Evangelical Bible idiot Ben Carson, Housing Secretary – famous for stating that Egyptian pyramids were built by St. Joseph for wheat storage; always reassuring when he stands next to Trump during our Great Leader blabbers

• Evangelical Robert Redfield, installed to run critical organization CDC (Center for Disease Control and Prevention) as its director in 2018 (he immediately increased his salary to almost $0.5M) decided to develop an American, hence superior test kit (despite that Chinese scientists in a record short time provided full virus genome and Germans and others developed a test kit adopted by WHO). The new “superior and our” test kits failed and much delayed testing – resulting that in the entire February only 256 people were tested?!? – the crime of a century. Redfield was on a board of the largest evangelical anti-gay organization while for a decade unsuccessfully developing AIDS vaccine (and fabricating results)….

• Evangelical Deborah Birx, White House Corona virus response coordinator managed anti-AIDS international $6.3B fund – like Redfield focusing on – abstinence

• Evangelical Betsy DeVos, Education Secretary and a sister of evangelical Eric Prince (founder of Blackwater – runs Trump’s private army)

• And an endless number of government and military evangelical officials financed by now almost limitless government resources

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Hmm...I may have misinterpreted your point, however!

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That's perfectly fine, that's what community discussion is for. I fully "feel" your proffered "rewrite" of your last sentence, and it does help me to understand your original meaning.

During the "Dark Ages", of course, *most Europeans were completely illiterate, and the Church in Rome was committing scandalous rip-offs via "alms scams" and "creative" scams like selling "indulgences" where the rich could *buy "get out of hell free cards" (indulgences) for the Nobles who could afford them, for such heinous acts as having burned, raped and pillaged entire villages and *towns.

For a certain "monetary consideration", the Pope in Rome would "absolve" and clear your sins. So, yes.

Before the enlightenment, "freedom" was a *very sketchy concept. It was still not widely clear during the time of Goethe, who lived from 1749 to 1832, which is why Goethe was educating Europeans on what philosophers had been writing on the concept of human freedom since Rene DeCarte in the early 1600s.

Disagreement is a valuable tool, so long as it is "constructive" (and instructive) disagreement, rather than a "tavern shouting match" ! Thank you for your very reasoned comments.

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Thank you, and you are welcome.

I know most of this, but I love reading such well-written summaries. They are my "scriptures."

I haven't had the time yet to look up that Goethe quote (familiar to me, but it has been too long!), and to what type of freedom he was referring, and to what group of self-deceived people. Now the "Venn diagram" of Church and State was much more "oval" then, and classical liberalism was in its infancy, so the distinction may be unimportant.

My original post, as I am sure now you ken, was nothing more than a desire for more education or, should I say, enlightenment, even if it must be forced on humans, an obvious violation of any concept of freedom. Huh, I am ironic.

And I now am sure that you, Goethe, and I are on the same page.

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