Lee, I'm having the same experience. Virtually without exception, all my Ivy League pals are fully on-board with Democratic Authoritarianism. These are primarily high-achieving professionals who have sailed through 20-40 years of career success and personal financial expansion. They have solid family legacies in the form of trust funds a…
Lee, I'm having the same experience. Virtually without exception, all my Ivy League pals are fully on-board with Democratic Authoritarianism. These are primarily high-achieving professionals who have sailed through 20-40 years of career success and personal financial expansion. They have solid family legacies in the form of trust funds and inheritances. A Marxist would call them "bourgeois." In spite of all their education and intellectualism, they're unable to recall that the "bourgeois" are always the first to go under totalitarian regimes as their critical thinking abilities and inside information (as direct servants to the elite) represent a serious threat to tyrants.
The psychology is complex and I'm trying to analyze it. These people have always studied hard and received Straight A's -- a reward for their ideology as much as intellectual effort. They don't understand failure; I recall that at Harvard Business School there was in fact a course in how to handle failures and mistakes. They have a deep investment in The System and have been handsomely rewarded by it. Tunnel-visioned, they have completely disregarded numerous recent "signal moments" like 9/11 and willingly parrot whatever the NY Times has to say.
Externally they celebrate success and achievement by posting happy family pics of expensive summer homes and exotic vacations. Internally things seem to be more complicated as they openly support "leftist" policies and positions that oppose their own class and the "dominance" of their ethnic group (almost invariably White), including gangs and groups that have publicly-avowed Marxist leaders. These achievers constantly shout against racism but live in a world entirely populated by people like themselves and would vehemently fight to keep a housing project or homeless shelter out of their own neighborhoods. They publicly sign on with the fantasy of "economic fairness" but pay high fees to accountants to shelter their incomes from taxes.
Is it guilt? I don't think so. I think it all stems from a complicated mix of enormous self-regard, entitlement (usually from birth), sense of moral authority, "head-in-the-sand" levels of naivete, a generally sincere wish to be "good," and deeply buried anxiety. The anxiety is rooted in the day-to-day moral compromises, big and small, that are almost impossible to avoid in banking, law, medical, journalism, and tech exec professions. It's also rooted in their inability to protect themselves at the most basic levels: personal body integrity, food production, wilderness hunting, fishing, etc. Even if they have a country house, they are truly "all in" when it comes to the dependencies of suburban life.
Also, for these people, *how they are perceived* is everything. They want you to think that they are Thinking Correctly and they signal virtue at every opportunity.
Basically they are all a lost cause and I've stopped talking to them on any meaningful level.
Lee and Urban, you are both on point and I just want to add detail that I think is useful for understanding.
1) The impact of social media is huge in this - in the creation of the bubble these people are in. Watch "Social Dilemma" and realize that the movement leftward of the Dem party starting around 2010 was social-media driven. The fact that the media was affected first draws even people who aren't on social media in, because the social media bubble first took over all of those producing content for the MSM.
2) This is an oligarchic elite being created, which will not end in authoritarian monarchy but rather in oligarchy looking more and more like China. These people have no fear and are eager to head that way because they are "in". The people who should worry about the repercussions are the working class and poor minority voters who support them, they are the ones who will be abandoned when push comes to shove. In fact, they effectively already are abandoned as their votes are sought through continued grievance, rather than solving their problems to create their happiness and contentment in life.
Succinct and accurate. The tribes that matter aren't L/R or R/D. They're authoritarian and libertarian. That's the battle, and the authoritarians are winning.
I disagree with the last part. In the early 90s, you had "free speech" enough to run your jaw at the bar or the thanksgiving table. If you wanted to go further and speak to the masses, you'd have to persuade ABC to give you a half hour slot, which they wouldn't do unless you promised to keep it politically insipid AND no cuss words AND no blasphemy AND no titties AND nothing gay. Joe Biden wanted to make raves as verboten as marijuana, and the ideas you read were limited to what was on sale at the local book store or library.
In 2020 ordinary people can broadcast their voice to the whole world while smoking weed and swearing like a trooper. You can download more or less anything from the history of subversive books, and probably find it for free even if Amazon won't sell you a copy. If your editor won't publish your articles you can set up for yourself on substack. And at the end of a hard day, free porn is streamed into the home like tap water.
I can't square this with the idea that the authoritarians and moral ninnies are winning. They have been routed, no?
Didn't Lennon write something about buying the peasants off with sex and tv?
They used to let the eunuchs wander anywhere in the castle, knowing they were harmless. Don't be fooled. They could give a rip if you marinate in dope, porn, blasphemy, subversive books and naughty words as long as you're harmless. In fact they may prefer that you're marinated as to better operate.
Authoritarians will move to end currency as quickly as they are moving to into censorship. Then they will monetize everything and privacy (read freedom) will no longer exist.
Not yet. They are winning the battle, not the war. On August 9, 1974, the Republican Party's funeral took place. Six years later Reagan won in a landslide. In 2020 ordinary people still had internet access that hadn't been terminated yet for dissidence. Their dissidence wasn't subject to reporting by their kids. There was no mandatory national registration and monitoring. We have more authoritarian advances yet to endure before routing can begin.
I don't believe you can blame social media for PMC love of status quo. I listened to a great rant by populism explainer-extraordinaire and Listen Liberal, The People, No author Thomas Frank on the Bad Faith podcast this week. He summarized all I know about elites going back to the 80s, when I met them in sororities, fraternities. Conformists to a tee, ready to look the other way if any of their tribe breaks the rules, always willing to throw lower classes under the bus, and that goes for Dems and Reps alike. Populism, working class consciousness, is our only hope.
I did watch "Social Dilemma" but found all the millennial smugness so irritating that I couldn't take the geeks seriously. I still find it hard to believe that "social media" has shaped Generation X to this degree.
In the oligarchic context you propose, the Ivy Leaguers' "virtue" is the skin that covers the skull -- they are unable to empathize, morally compromised, and operating at an instinctive animal level. Also some of them have real *hatred* for Trump and supporters, another sign of moral fissure. The American Political Class is therefore divided from its own humanity and universal truth.
At least wealthy Trumpers don't make claims about virtue. They're just fine with enriching themselves on the backs of others without empathy nor concern. This is also a sad condition but at least it's refreshingly direct.
I used to share a house with a starting football player for the NY Giants. He was a smart Midwest guy with an analytical mind. Everyone in the world was enamored with Lawrence Taylor at the time, but to me he was a beast who had one job in life....get the QB. There was no reason to aspire to be him, be like him, or even like him. When he put the uniform on, he was a one man wrecking crew. He won..we won...everyone won...until he crashed and burned by his own excesses.
I didn’t lose any sleep over his decline because I knew that he was a tool to be used by the Giants and by the state of New Jersey to excite and delight the masses. That’s Donald J Trump.
Am I ashamed I’ve used him the last 4 years to get done what needed to get done?
Am I shocked he broken some furniture and china in the West Wing?
Am I mature enough to understand that he puts his pants on one leg at a time just like Lawrence Taylor used to?
Don’t fall in love with the man or the woman promising you X, Y or Z...no matter how good they are at a particular task.
Always...Always...Always..... Think for yourself and own your own agency.
It’s the only think that separates us from 1984 and The Brave New World.
The hate comes from social media and media. Same as Fox News making people hate the Clintons in the 90s. It becomes lizard brain, and the bubbles literally include separate sets of facts. Lesley Stahl asks Trump questions based on things that your Ivy Gen X folks believe to be true but just ain't. But the whole bubble believes them to be true (e.g. Hunter Biden laptop = Russian disinfo).
The forces at work here are the same. Many on the left, both these Ivy leaguers as well as antifa, get indoctrinated and brainwashed on one set of falsehoods. Many on the right, including the Capitol rioters, get indoctrinated on another. Antifa and the Capitol rioters have fewer jobs and less happiness in the middle of the pandemic and their hate moves them to violence. The Ivy Leaguers are moved to hate but not violence. But it's the same phenomenon, driven largely by social media and the media forces laid out in Taibbi's "Hate, Inc".
Thank you, I'm well aware of this. I'm Gen X and this is the group I was referring to in my original post about Ivy Leaguers at the top of the thread.
The Millennials are the public face of Social Media and these are the self-congratulatory types featured in Social Dilemma, grandiosely assigning themselves the awesome blame for "Destroying the World." I disagree with this perspective. IMO Social Media is a symptom, not a cause.
When Ned Lamont defeated Joe Liebermann in the Democratic Senate Primary in 2006, the strong leftward movement was already well underway. The internet (if not social media) played a large part in that movement.
Here's a fascinating take: woke ideas can be understood as a type of Veblen good. If I'm a straight white male, embracing woke principles *should* be against my selfish interest. Therefore embracing these principles is a demonstration not just of how good and moral I am, but also how *strong* I am.
This was a fascinating and insightful article. The thing I see missing among these Luxury Leisure Class types is “character”. The kind of character one learns while digging ditches or bailing hay. Perhaps the only thing that will save us is mandatory military service. At a minimum it would teach discipline and character by, at least for a time, putting everyone at the same level of worthlessness(in the eyes of a Gunnery Sargent).
Commentor, dodging military service is one of the perks of being in the 1%. We haven't had a President with any military experience since Bush Sr. circa 1990 -- since the Pentagon is running that show there is no need from their point of view, but it would be better for the American People if this were a requirement for the Presidency.
I did sign up for Selective Service when I turned 18 and I'd do it again.
I think in terms of activism itself it must be said that you also need to be in luxury to devote the time to social criticism instead of assuring your own economic well being. You can be Laurie David or you can be an antifa chud living off a rich parent, but you can't spend time on woke activism unless you have the luxury of time.
ON the flip side, racism correlates indirectly with economic status - less educated people hate the "other" not only due to ignorance but because of the direct loss of economic opportunity as equality improves.
Whereas you are saying Richie Rich is so next level untouchable that he shows he is all for the elevation of the other, who will remain several stations below him.
Classically you describe it wellbut I don;t thinmk they are in any danger in this version.
This is a uniquely American fascism, it is an Oligarchic fascism without a visible Dear Leader hidden by a Potemkin democracy that shepherds voters to chose one or the other of the allowed candidates at the national level.
As for legitimacy, yeah, well, people get deplatformed for pointing at the studies of how quickly these voting machines can be owned onsite which then leads to the unanswered question of their system security knowledge on the actual tally servers.
Yeah, I don't question it, I just point at it so I don't get banned for pointing at the easily verifiable already highly public info.
In any case your friends, they should be just fine if they get on board with the sharks down at the country club.
Country club membership is no guarantee. In the most extreme example, check the bond traders etc. that didn't make it out of the WTC. Some were lucky, others were protected...and a few others were neither.
I agree with Wally below. Many of these people are stressed around the clock and only as useful as their masters find them on any given day. You'd think they'd realize this and jump the track, but if SubStack Commentator 34 is correct, then they are up late at night praying to continue Insider status.
Early in Stalin's reign, he had a lieutenant that was very loyal. So loyal that he informed Stalin about a plot to kill Stalin and install him as the leader. What did Stalin do? Killed his perceived competitor. Loyal or not, he was a threat. Same thing will happen here.
They think they'll be able to charm the socks for the dictators. It won't work; it never works. And as you said, they will be the first people led to the gallows.
Lee, I'm having the same experience. Virtually without exception, all my Ivy League pals are fully on-board with Democratic Authoritarianism. These are primarily high-achieving professionals who have sailed through 20-40 years of career success and personal financial expansion. They have solid family legacies in the form of trust funds and inheritances. A Marxist would call them "bourgeois." In spite of all their education and intellectualism, they're unable to recall that the "bourgeois" are always the first to go under totalitarian regimes as their critical thinking abilities and inside information (as direct servants to the elite) represent a serious threat to tyrants.
The psychology is complex and I'm trying to analyze it. These people have always studied hard and received Straight A's -- a reward for their ideology as much as intellectual effort. They don't understand failure; I recall that at Harvard Business School there was in fact a course in how to handle failures and mistakes. They have a deep investment in The System and have been handsomely rewarded by it. Tunnel-visioned, they have completely disregarded numerous recent "signal moments" like 9/11 and willingly parrot whatever the NY Times has to say.
Externally they celebrate success and achievement by posting happy family pics of expensive summer homes and exotic vacations. Internally things seem to be more complicated as they openly support "leftist" policies and positions that oppose their own class and the "dominance" of their ethnic group (almost invariably White), including gangs and groups that have publicly-avowed Marxist leaders. These achievers constantly shout against racism but live in a world entirely populated by people like themselves and would vehemently fight to keep a housing project or homeless shelter out of their own neighborhoods. They publicly sign on with the fantasy of "economic fairness" but pay high fees to accountants to shelter their incomes from taxes.
Is it guilt? I don't think so. I think it all stems from a complicated mix of enormous self-regard, entitlement (usually from birth), sense of moral authority, "head-in-the-sand" levels of naivete, a generally sincere wish to be "good," and deeply buried anxiety. The anxiety is rooted in the day-to-day moral compromises, big and small, that are almost impossible to avoid in banking, law, medical, journalism, and tech exec professions. It's also rooted in their inability to protect themselves at the most basic levels: personal body integrity, food production, wilderness hunting, fishing, etc. Even if they have a country house, they are truly "all in" when it comes to the dependencies of suburban life.
Also, for these people, *how they are perceived* is everything. They want you to think that they are Thinking Correctly and they signal virtue at every opportunity.
Basically they are all a lost cause and I've stopped talking to them on any meaningful level.
Lee and Urban, you are both on point and I just want to add detail that I think is useful for understanding.
1) The impact of social media is huge in this - in the creation of the bubble these people are in. Watch "Social Dilemma" and realize that the movement leftward of the Dem party starting around 2010 was social-media driven. The fact that the media was affected first draws even people who aren't on social media in, because the social media bubble first took over all of those producing content for the MSM.
2) This is an oligarchic elite being created, which will not end in authoritarian monarchy but rather in oligarchy looking more and more like China. These people have no fear and are eager to head that way because they are "in". The people who should worry about the repercussions are the working class and poor minority voters who support them, they are the ones who will be abandoned when push comes to shove. In fact, they effectively already are abandoned as their votes are sought through continued grievance, rather than solving their problems to create their happiness and contentment in life.
Succinct and accurate. The tribes that matter aren't L/R or R/D. They're authoritarian and libertarian. That's the battle, and the authoritarians are winning.
I disagree with the last part. In the early 90s, you had "free speech" enough to run your jaw at the bar or the thanksgiving table. If you wanted to go further and speak to the masses, you'd have to persuade ABC to give you a half hour slot, which they wouldn't do unless you promised to keep it politically insipid AND no cuss words AND no blasphemy AND no titties AND nothing gay. Joe Biden wanted to make raves as verboten as marijuana, and the ideas you read were limited to what was on sale at the local book store or library.
In 2020 ordinary people can broadcast their voice to the whole world while smoking weed and swearing like a trooper. You can download more or less anything from the history of subversive books, and probably find it for free even if Amazon won't sell you a copy. If your editor won't publish your articles you can set up for yourself on substack. And at the end of a hard day, free porn is streamed into the home like tap water.
I can't square this with the idea that the authoritarians and moral ninnies are winning. They have been routed, no?
Didn't Lennon write something about buying the peasants off with sex and tv?
They used to let the eunuchs wander anywhere in the castle, knowing they were harmless. Don't be fooled. They could give a rip if you marinate in dope, porn, blasphemy, subversive books and naughty words as long as you're harmless. In fact they may prefer that you're marinated as to better operate.
Authoritarians will move to end currency as quickly as they are moving to into censorship. Then they will monetize everything and privacy (read freedom) will no longer exist.
Not yet. They are winning the battle, not the war. On August 9, 1974, the Republican Party's funeral took place. Six years later Reagan won in a landslide. In 2020 ordinary people still had internet access that hadn't been terminated yet for dissidence. Their dissidence wasn't subject to reporting by their kids. There was no mandatory national registration and monitoring. We have more authoritarian advances yet to endure before routing can begin.
I don't believe you can blame social media for PMC love of status quo. I listened to a great rant by populism explainer-extraordinaire and Listen Liberal, The People, No author Thomas Frank on the Bad Faith podcast this week. He summarized all I know about elites going back to the 80s, when I met them in sororities, fraternities. Conformists to a tee, ready to look the other way if any of their tribe breaks the rules, always willing to throw lower classes under the bus, and that goes for Dems and Reps alike. Populism, working class consciousness, is our only hope.
I did watch "Social Dilemma" but found all the millennial smugness so irritating that I couldn't take the geeks seriously. I still find it hard to believe that "social media" has shaped Generation X to this degree.
In the oligarchic context you propose, the Ivy Leaguers' "virtue" is the skin that covers the skull -- they are unable to empathize, morally compromised, and operating at an instinctive animal level. Also some of them have real *hatred* for Trump and supporters, another sign of moral fissure. The American Political Class is therefore divided from its own humanity and universal truth.
At least wealthy Trumpers don't make claims about virtue. They're just fine with enriching themselves on the backs of others without empathy nor concern. This is also a sad condition but at least it's refreshingly direct.
I used to share a house with a starting football player for the NY Giants. He was a smart Midwest guy with an analytical mind. Everyone in the world was enamored with Lawrence Taylor at the time, but to me he was a beast who had one job in life....get the QB. There was no reason to aspire to be him, be like him, or even like him. When he put the uniform on, he was a one man wrecking crew. He won..we won...everyone won...until he crashed and burned by his own excesses.
I didn’t lose any sleep over his decline because I knew that he was a tool to be used by the Giants and by the state of New Jersey to excite and delight the masses. That’s Donald J Trump.
Am I ashamed I’ve used him the last 4 years to get done what needed to get done?
Am I shocked he broken some furniture and china in the West Wing?
Am I mature enough to understand that he puts his pants on one leg at a time just like Lawrence Taylor used to?
Don’t fall in love with the man or the woman promising you X, Y or Z...no matter how good they are at a particular task.
Always...Always...Always..... Think for yourself and own your own agency.
It’s the only think that separates us from 1984 and The Brave New World.
The hate comes from social media and media. Same as Fox News making people hate the Clintons in the 90s. It becomes lizard brain, and the bubbles literally include separate sets of facts. Lesley Stahl asks Trump questions based on things that your Ivy Gen X folks believe to be true but just ain't. But the whole bubble believes them to be true (e.g. Hunter Biden laptop = Russian disinfo).
The forces at work here are the same. Many on the left, both these Ivy leaguers as well as antifa, get indoctrinated and brainwashed on one set of falsehoods. Many on the right, including the Capitol rioters, get indoctrinated on another. Antifa and the Capitol rioters have fewer jobs and less happiness in the middle of the pandemic and their hate moves them to violence. The Ivy Leaguers are moved to hate but not violence. But it's the same phenomenon, driven largely by social media and the media forces laid out in Taibbi's "Hate, Inc".
Gen X are the 41-56 years old.
Millenials are the 25-40 years old. (aka Gen Y)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X
Thank you, I'm well aware of this. I'm Gen X and this is the group I was referring to in my original post about Ivy Leaguers at the top of the thread.
The Millennials are the public face of Social Media and these are the self-congratulatory types featured in Social Dilemma, grandiosely assigning themselves the awesome blame for "Destroying the World." I disagree with this perspective. IMO Social Media is a symptom, not a cause.
Yeah, I wasn't completely sure, just in case. Yeah, something was off for me in «Social Dilemma» too, thanks for putting it into words !
However, note that the generations 'raised' on Social Media will eventually come in power, so we're far from having seen all the impacts yet…
Nothing I've read in a long time says, "I have no idea what I'm talking about" quite as effectively as:
"the movement leftward of the Dem party starting around 2010"
When Ned Lamont defeated Joe Liebermann in the Democratic Senate Primary in 2006, the strong leftward movement was already well underway. The internet (if not social media) played a large part in that movement.
Here's a fascinating take: woke ideas can be understood as a type of Veblen good. If I'm a straight white male, embracing woke principles *should* be against my selfish interest. Therefore embracing these principles is a demonstration not just of how good and moral I am, but also how *strong* I am.
https://quillette.com/2019/11/16/thorstein-veblens-theory-of-the-leisure-class-a-status-update/
This was a fascinating and insightful article. The thing I see missing among these Luxury Leisure Class types is “character”. The kind of character one learns while digging ditches or bailing hay. Perhaps the only thing that will save us is mandatory military service. At a minimum it would teach discipline and character by, at least for a time, putting everyone at the same level of worthlessness(in the eyes of a Gunnery Sargent).
Commentor, dodging military service is one of the perks of being in the 1%. We haven't had a President with any military experience since Bush Sr. circa 1990 -- since the Pentagon is running that show there is no need from their point of view, but it would be better for the American People if this were a requirement for the Presidency.
I did sign up for Selective Service when I turned 18 and I'd do it again.
Yeah, it would have to be a mandate without loopholes. No exceptions for any reason. Everyone gets treated the same way. This will build character.
Almost everyone, the kids of the 0.1% will always find ways to avoid it. But it will still be good for the kids of the 9.9%
That is awesome, thanks!!
I think in terms of activism itself it must be said that you also need to be in luxury to devote the time to social criticism instead of assuring your own economic well being. You can be Laurie David or you can be an antifa chud living off a rich parent, but you can't spend time on woke activism unless you have the luxury of time.
ON the flip side, racism correlates indirectly with economic status - less educated people hate the "other" not only due to ignorance but because of the direct loss of economic opportunity as equality improves.
Whereas you are saying Richie Rich is so next level untouchable that he shows he is all for the elevation of the other, who will remain several stations below him.
Classically you describe it wellbut I don;t thinmk they are in any danger in this version.
This is a uniquely American fascism, it is an Oligarchic fascism without a visible Dear Leader hidden by a Potemkin democracy that shepherds voters to chose one or the other of the allowed candidates at the national level.
As for legitimacy, yeah, well, people get deplatformed for pointing at the studies of how quickly these voting machines can be owned onsite which then leads to the unanswered question of their system security knowledge on the actual tally servers.
Yeah, I don't question it, I just point at it so I don't get banned for pointing at the easily verifiable already highly public info.
In any case your friends, they should be just fine if they get on board with the sharks down at the country club.
Country club membership is no guarantee. In the most extreme example, check the bond traders etc. that didn't make it out of the WTC. Some were lucky, others were protected...and a few others were neither.
I agree with Wally below. Many of these people are stressed around the clock and only as useful as their masters find them on any given day. You'd think they'd realize this and jump the track, but if SubStack Commentator 34 is correct, then they are up late at night praying to continue Insider status.
"The "bourgeois" are always the first to go under totalitarian regimes"
Not always true : it was the middle class that put Nazis in power, and even reaped some of the rewards (except for the middle-class Jews).
Early in Stalin's reign, he had a lieutenant that was very loyal. So loyal that he informed Stalin about a plot to kill Stalin and install him as the leader. What did Stalin do? Killed his perceived competitor. Loyal or not, he was a threat. Same thing will happen here.
They think they'll be able to charm the socks for the dictators. It won't work; it never works. And as you said, they will be the first people led to the gallows.
To make a complex argument crude, being sufficiently woke is as helpful as a moat when the pitchforks come?