582 Comments

The Dixie Chicks analogy significantly weakens your otherwise outstanding argument; people choosing not to buy something is wholly different from trying to stop others from having the opportunity to buy it. A boycott is fundamentally and qualitatively different from a ban: If people were urging record stores to not carry their albums (and that may have happened; I don't recall it, but that doesn't mean it didn't), that would be different from a boycott. Because if choosing not to buy someone's records is censorship, then I've been "censoring" Yoko Ono for more than 40 years now.

On a serious note, Wilkinson's tweet was actually funny for anyone who has a sense of humor, whereas the tweet from his former boss was simply angry and hateful.

The answer to cancel culture is for people in positions of power to stop caring what is on Twitter. Just. Stop.

And those of us appalled by all of this should stop spending our money on organizations that indulge this crap.

Which mean, Glenn, we boycott businesses like Amazon, Google and Twitter - not to "cancel" them, but to spend our money on businesses whose practices don't contribute to cancel culture.

Again, it's important to differentiate between boycotts and bans.

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People absolutely have the right to refrain from buying products. If it were just that, I'd agree with you. But they burned their CDs publicly. They demanded radio stations not play their music (and those stations succumbed to the demands). It was far more than just a decision not to buy their CDs. It was uglier than a lot of people remember. You have to be willing to look at excesses of your own side, too.

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Well, they learned their lesson did they not? They dropped Dixie from their name to virtue signal to BLM this summer, because now being associated with the South in general is racist? Give these hysterical self righteous cultists an inch and you'll see it wasn't about the issue, it's about the control.

Every move that's made is just about fear and control. It's the modern Inquisition.

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Its the revenge of the weenies in high school with no self esteem and super insecure. Self righteousness and moralizing is the disease of our age.

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Of every age.

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I remember it. Stupid it was but nothing like being ghosted by Big Tech and banished to russian servers in a matter of days.

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While I was very disappointed with the behavior of the Dixie Chicks, I was disturbed by the reaction to it. Plus, I loved their music and miss it. C'mon man, after all they are just entertainers...very few people look to entertainers as beacons of wisdom.

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The campaign led them to branch out and appeal to other markets, I assume pop music and maybe folk. They expressed gratitude that they'd been evicted from the ghetto. IOW, they're still around; just look for their music.

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Oh, I've heard their stuff since their eviction - it's just not music. The "ghetto" made them who they are and if they truly believe that I'd suggest such arrogance is the reason they are irrelevant today. I'll take that "ghetto" music over 95% of the soulless, heartless pablum that is out there today.

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I think the issue was most amplified by one Bib Geldof. After LIve Aid the fashion was make political statements and be an activist. There was a push to say pop stars ave been given a platform so the must use it for other reasons than the reason they have been given the platform, which is to entertain.

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Right-wing equivalent was Joe McCarthy. Joe enlisted government institutions to his cause, and leveraged those to bully private actors. Dixie Chicks were boycotted by individuals. There was no radio station equivalent of Big Tech. Other labels and promoters were free to do business with them. The symbolism of CD burning was horror, but they were the burners' property. Unlike expressive works of art (monuments, statues), public property, with law enforcement "giving them space" and news media proclaiming support. Glenn, are you too young to remember Tailgunner Joe?

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Although not exactly equivalent to Big Tech, even today no country music artist has any chance of making it big without country radio. So much so that one of the awards given at the CMAs is top country radio DJ/personality, and they make a big deal out of. Country may be the genre most dependent on radio. As a result, the Dixie Chicks had no choice but to retool their career or perish.

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Correct. There are radio station cartels, but the barriers to entry for competitors are quite low, and I'm unaware of any monolithic country radio mogul who can deny anybody the ability to perform.

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I remember John Brenner and his voting for Gus Hall.

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I don't disagree with your points regarding the Dixie Chicks, Glenn. Especially the essential blacklisting them from country radio. For whatever it's worth, there is a cultural dimension that was also at play. Even in large mostly urban/suburban counties country music fans tend to be more conservative. Doubly so in rural areas. As you point out in your essay most of our institutions, including music and other entertainment, are most culturally liberal. One of the very few exceptions is country music. While one could argue country fans over reacted, many if not most took the Dixie Chicks comments as a cultural betrayal. Inundated by liberal institutions in almost every aspect of our culture, country music is a place where conservatives can feel completely comfortable belonging. Many took the Chicks as attacking this social place. I'm not saying this makes their cancelation right, but I think there more involved than simple gotcha fake outrage

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True. But nevertheless, it did show that whatever the reasons, this type of weapon can and has been wielded by the Right and Left alike in the past. In fact, before the scourge of political correctness came down on society during the past three decades, during decades prior to the '70s the patriotic correctness of the Right was often ruled the roost in popular fiction, academia, etc.

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I don't disagree. But given the left's cultural dominance, it is telling that Glenn had to reach so far back in time for a good example of cancelation by the right (and I agree it was a good example - and, sad to say, one I was guilty in supporting). And you are right about the 60s and earlier. Of course many people reading this weren't alive then! Damn, I'm old!

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There is a huge difference between ad-hoc, spontaneous cancellation, as occurred with the Dixie Chicks, and the broad scale, organized, coordinated, media driven, and liberal government supported oppression. Once Obama set the framework for the new cancel culture, the left has been a cult.

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"White fragility". Bullshit. Race has nothing to do wiih it. You reveal so much of yourself by use if this term in this context. Believe it or not everything in life is NOT about race. Since it's clear your values are in line with the dominate left culture, what would you know of conservatives need for a cultural place with like minded people? You've got those places in spades. All that said, as I've acknowledged in other posts it was cancelation, and especially the radio blacklisting, wrong. I've brought up the conservation cultural aspect as added nuance that is at play. Try to see beyond your rote woke stereotypes.

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Sorry, but your characterization of conservatives desire for a sliver of our culture to not be dominated by the left as "white fragility" absolutely makes it about race. Not one iota of my posts had anything to do with race. Do you think all conservatives and country music fans are white? If so you need to rethink your assumptions. As for the rest of your rant, it has absolutely nothing to do with the points I made.

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“White fragility.” Such an ugly phrase, revealing a rot in its utterer.

Signed,

A Brown Woman

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Let's try to see that past instance of the Dixie Chick's in the context. It was just after 9-11. We were going to eat in Iraq. The Chick's went public with an anti-war stance. The State made an example out of the Dixie Chick's. An anti war opinion in retaliation for a still to this day taboo topic of 9-11. Does it make any more sense now to see it in this context? Or is the all benevolent state harmless in the completely organic rhetoric regarding War in Iraq? Is the State completely benign now? In silencing this who question Election Integrity? In blacklisting Conservatives at a time when the Fed just printed more dollars then ever before in its history.

Context does matter. The State is never Benevolent to its citizens. The Dixie Chick's then and Conservatives now better fall in line or face the mob. Propaganda is almost always effective, especially for those who have 'a side'. It's always the other side that's brainwashed, never their own.

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Andreas, perhaps you’ve never been at a football game where the 3 Manchester United F.C fans sitting in the stadium belts out a huge round of applause for the Liverpool F.C. goal. You talk about betrayal? It happens everywhere. We are all tribal and yes, it’s in our genetic code from 10,000 years ago when if you weren’t tribal, you were left to fend for yourself with the wolves and grizzly bears. When that happens and you abandon your tribe and you’re standing there naked against the wild, then you can talk about your white fragility. Unless you want to talk about Western Civilization and Judeao-Christian law, which civilized most of us so that when our tribe is dissed, they get booed and ignored instead of shoved into the wild with just their own two feet.

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Very good analogy, TrueNorthMN. I do believe conservatives are becoming more tribal, in many ways including myself. I used to love discussing politics with those on the left. Still so with many in this forum. Otherwise, not so much. I live in the only GOP congressional district left in San Diego county, where I've lived my entire life. When I retire in a year or two I'm out of here, moving to someplace with more conservative people. Someplace where my world view isn't vilified as racist, etc.

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Hi! Spent most of my life in San Diego, moved to a Red State in the South 3 years ago, there's lots of us here! I love it, I laugh whenever I fill up my gas tank. You won't regret it, don't wait until CA starts working to prevent its mass exodus, critical thinking is telling me that's the next move there.

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Come to western NC. Conservative, beautiful and we need to keep outnumbering the loons in Asheville.

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I think you nailed this piece Glenn. The examples of both the right and left trying to vanquish opposition are critical for people to integrate. The fact is, the right's opposition to the Dixie Chicks used the tools that were available to them at that time. Does anyone seriously doubt the right would have leveraged their own Twitter or Facebook had those tools been available to them to cancel the Chicks? To your larger point, as long as the left and right keep fighting each other, they continue to lose coherence and credibility. One opportunity you could get into deeper is the Maginot lines that were crossed with the destruction of Parler and the occupation of the capitol. The inability of either side to dominate the other is resulting in a ramping of greater (and more consequential) results. What's next?

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Well, I don't know about you, but I'm going to work in the garden a bit then take a dip in the pool.

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You mean to the wall, like Martin Luther?

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If you’re going to write and sing music for the Duck Dynasty, Clampett’s, Jeff Foxworthy and Bubba J (Jeff Dunham) demographic, you need to understand your audience. That’s the problem with many musicians who are good on the music side and horrible at anything outside that very narrow swim lane, including understanding their real audience. While I’m not in this demographic, I can belt out the best of Garth Brooks with the best of ‘em.

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That's fair - but you get my newsletter, Glenn, and if you read it a few weeks ago you know I hammered Rudy Guiliani and Marjorie Taylor Greene for their recent attempts to destroy (cancel) any Republicans who didn't go along with Trump's false claims that the election was stolen via fraud. I'd add David Marcus' ridiculous demand in this morning's Federalist that McConnell step down for holding Trump responsible for his contribution to stoking the partisan flames that led to the riot. I'm not demanding the Federalist fire Marcus, mind you, I just think Marcus' column was idiotic.

I'd forgotten about the burning of CDs - always opposed to that. Still not entirely convinced that that episode truly amounted to an attempted cancellation so much as it was acting on frustration and anger - sort of like how you have differentiated the Jan. 6 riot as a riot and not an actual insurrection it's being portrayed as. The Dixie Chicks were, after all, able to transition to a fairly successful career catering to alternative rock fans who shared their political views and we were willing to give them a chance despite not really liking country music up to that point.

But I also acknowledge I may be completely wrong on all that.

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Rather king and needy posts. Get your own substack.

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psychotic asshole

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subtract ad hominem

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subtracting ad hominem is pure fascism

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Long damn spellcheck

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Long damn spellchecks are pure fascism

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The election was clearly stolen from Trump - convenient votes in the middle of the night, losing the bellweather counties, etc

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I'd like to see you try boycotting Amazon. Hell, this website (substack) uses Amazon Web Services as a host. Its hard *not* to use AWS -- even if you purchase hosting from another company, there's a very good chance its still through AWS. Honestly, its about time we "Ma Bell" the Bezos.

Got it right though: social media loses all of its power the moment we start realizing it isn't real. Ignoring the digital mob is the only solution.

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I'm boycotting Amazon right now. I use it for shopping, comparison, and reviews, then look up the manufacturer and buy from them, cutting out amazon. This is possible 8 times out of 10. The 9th time is where the original manufacturer is stupid enough to charge more than amazon, and the 10th time is when it's some little niche item that I can't get locally in central Florida. Usually items worth only a few bucks.

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Me too. And now add Bed Bath and Beyond. I live in a small town and try to patronize my Main St businesses. I will pay more to help them stay afloat.

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I hope this doesn't have anything to do with the My Pillow Qanon nutjob who was still shilling hard after the riot, because not being that much of a douche is a pretty low standard to hold for a retailer choosing to not carry a company's products.

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I know Mike Lindell and his management team and I can assure you, they’re not nutjobs or a douche. They’re Populists plain and simple and they are free speech advocates. If you can’t see the nexus between Populism on the Right and the Left, you are not yet “woke” to the future of our collective fight to right size the Establishment. I sat in Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street encampments in 2010 and 2011 and there was much more in common with their mission than the Establishment media will allow you to believe. Remember, the enemy of my enemy is my friend for the purposes of promoting systemic change. After we get the change we seek, then we can go back to Populist Right vs. Populist Left fights..but I can assure you...few on the Populist Right want to shut down your 1st amendment rights. If you take the 30% of Populists on the Left and combine with the 30% of Populists on the right....that constitutes a majority vs. the 40% in the Establishment. The only question is whether people can agree on what unites us and for now.....disregard the areas we disagree on.

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Working to overturn the will of the majority, potentially using military force is not a populist goal, it's elitist and literally fascist, and I'm not a lefty who overuses that term. Mike Lindell is pushing absolutely ridiculous - full-on douchebag nutjob - conspiracy theories about "hammer" and "scorecard" programs which are only alleged to exist by a previously universally reviled fraudster with a long history of self-enriching opportunistic scams. Lindell's "evidence" looks like any generic bittorrent port list, and shows no evidence that the access was even granted. I can generate an identical list using Peerblock and not a single attempt at access would amount to anything. Or I could obv generate the same thing using a word processor... It's cringeworthy to anyone with even elementary knowledge of networking. He has yet to show the full text of the paper he was photographed with showing "martial law" on it. He continued to rile up his followers even after they stormed the capital. The guy is an absolute buffoon who deserves whatever backlash he gets. I voted for Trump twice, btw, and would again just on policy grounds even though I don't think he's all that bright or competent either.

As far as populism, most on the populist left want to increase payroll taxes by ~13% to pay for universal health insurance, which would roughly double to triple my current costs depending on the year's income. They want semi-auto gun bans, sex hormones for children and teenagers, universal parental leave, universal childcare, free college - paid for by my (non-college educated) taxes, more speech restrictions. The populist right largely just wants to be left alone. There is less common ground here than you think, IMO. It'd be nice if we could all agree to raise taxes on just the uber-rich and maybe tax capital gains more like regular income, but unfortunately the only politicians advocating that also want the other items as a package deal, and that just doesn't fly in my book.

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Thanks for the tip. I'm also boycotting Amazon and am having a hard time finding individual vendors to buy from. Because I won't even log into Amazon, (cancelled my account) I didn't think of that option of comparing then seeing the individual manufacturers name. I'll have to look at that in the search engine. I appreciate the tip. I'm trying to compile tips for people who are doing what they can not to purchase from these monopolies.

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Proton mail based in Switzerland has been popular. I was going to get it but came across tutanota.com and found it to be much cheaper if you want more than the free acct. And tutanota encrypts the subject line whereas proton mail does not. I've only had it about a month but so far so good. Simpler UI and great responsiveness. Duck Duck Go is an alternative to Google as a search engine, and they have a standalone search app for mobile that seems to be completely private with no snooping or record keeping. As for banking, I'm in the process of moving everything to local banks -- no more citibank or other financial giants. But I do think it's useful to maintain an account or two if there's an occasional advantage for you. So 95% disinvestment and disuse is my goal.

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Thank you for that inspiration. I have to admit I am only doing that for book purchases right now. First the library (we have a system here in Toronto) then to local bookstores. I am going to start doing it for other items 😊

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Thanks for sharing these comments. I'm learning to walk again without the crutches of big tech too. My muscles have atrophied, but I'm regaining strength by the day.

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Oh my goodness, it sure does feel good to see so many people attempting to do what they can to financially support independent business.

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I share your atrophy!

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Very often, if you look at Amazon's marketplace sellers, you can go buy directly from their site. I buy a lot of foreign language stuff and have started shopping directly with some stores that specialize in that. Don't get the 2 day shipping, but even if I'm not giving up Amazon altogether they no longer have a monopoly on my purchases.

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I'll add that my email is based on secure German servers and my hosting service is based in Bulgaria. Ditch them all.

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Done that-- love Proton and Signal. 🥰

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I run the mail servers and web servers for around 60 internet domains, all for free, for friends' businesses... ...Find your local friendly computer nerd and treat them well, and you, too, might find your way to avoiding the big guys.

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"I'm boycotting Amazon right now. "

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Good for you, but it's a symbolic gesture that will accomplish almost nothing. Amazon needs to be broken up by the GOVERNMENT, by the PEOPLE, by laws and regulations. Jeff Bezos doesn't give a fuck if you boycott him or not.

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Bezos should seek a breakup of his company for his own sake. John D. Rockefeller fought the breakout of Standard Oil out of hubris and pride, but 5 years after the breakup of his company, he had 2x the wealth.

AWS should be splintered off the E-commerce business and the media business should also be force to be spun off.

We don’t want a man worth $1 trillion who buys ink in 55 gallon drums through the WaPo controlling the national narrative. That's not free speech. That’s a Big Tech Oligarch using tyrannical means to destroy whoever he wants to destroy. You might not be in his sights today, but I can sure you that he’ll have you in his sights tomorrow.

As a AMZN shareholder, this would be hugely profitable to me. The value of those businesses independent of each other (with a sale of the WaPo) would be 3x what they’re worth today within 5 years.

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" 5 years after the breakup of his company, he had 2x the wealth."

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Probably would have been 4x wealthier without the breakup.

Breaking up the tech monsters is easy. Implement a progressive corporate tax structure and they will break up themselves. Bigger corporations should pay a higher tax rate than smaller corporations. A flat corporate tax doesn't work, it encourages monopolies to form.

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Who are the major stockholders of Amazon stock?

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LOL. Yes, it takes more than one to make a boycott. But I'll also be happy to support your campaign to break them up. Is your campaign website up yet?

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A democratic GOVERNMENT is the only entity powerful enough to break up amazon. The GOVERNMENT broke up Standard Oil and regulated Ma Bell and it was for the better. Monopolies are anti-competitive and that's bad for the free market. Snowflake investors don't seem to give a damn about the free market, they are scared it will hurt their mamma.

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Read about Salazar in Portugal. A benevolent autocrat can do the same thing. This may in fact be our best hope at this point, but we're more likely to get corporate fascists. Oh wait! They won the election just last week, "fair and square," right? And now they're moving at warp speed, publicly, to establish their own personal Stasi.

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Seems like more than half the time the manufacturer charges more than Amazon after shipping is factored in. Ebay can be good but always price check for Amazon drop shippers there

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Well, I cancelled my Amazon account after 21 years. My websites are hosted by a small, family owned outfit that co-los their own server boxes. I've cancelled my Amazon referral account, obviously, although my CD reviews and book reviews still link to Amazon for now - there's more than 1,000, so changing those by hand will be time consuming. The books will link to the Independent booksellers association online portal - got approved for an account there. Not yet sure about the music links.

I'm also moving all my domain registrations from GoDaddy, and am slowly but surely migrating all my logins from Gmail to my own domain.

Someone else pointed out on a previous Glenn post, I think (or maybe Taibbi) that we've all been busy trading our principles for convenience.

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As for this:

"we've all been busy trading our principles for convenience."

...that's false: SOME OF US have never traded our principals for convenience, such as myself; I've run my own mail and web servers since about 1996, have never had an Amazon account, etc.

Whenever I'm using one of the big (read evil) corps in tech, it's because someone else has forced it, such as the myriad people who mindlessly have gmail accounts, so I can't email them without handing google some of MY content, which regularly pisses me off.

And, by the way, I literally have interrupted my work in now moving up to providing virtual hosting of email for my many friends I want to communicate securely with, so I can now offer all those people with gmail accounts one hosted on MY boxes, so they can shed that association and we're all better off.

That said, why are you ditching GoDaddy? I've been with them since roughly the end of their first month in operation, LONG before they had a fancy web site. While they've made some mis-steps in the last few years, I basically threatened to take my business elsewhere if they didn't ditch this "value pricing" idea on domains I already own. I was actually told the renewal on one domain was high "because it's a good domain name," and I told the kid on the phone that yeah, that's why I got it, and if GoDaddy wants to be in the domain speculation business, they need to end being a registrar - those are two different functions. ... They backed down shortly thereafter, but IDK if it was just for a guy like me, with around 60 registered domain and a total history of around 100 registered with them over the decades... If they're doing that to others, I want to know!

So, again please, why are you leaving GoDaddy?

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GoDaddy cancelled hosting for a shooting sports club with no notice, shortly after Parler got axed by Amazon. Said that "glorifying" guns violated their terms.

I admire your consistency! Clearly, though, given the market dominance of Amazon, Google, FaceBook, etc., the vast majority of us have not shown your tenacity to our ideals - myself included.

I used to write the Online San Diego column in ComputorEdge Magazine for (that's how they spelled it), reviewing local BBS systems in the '80s and '90s. Was on the 'Net before there was a Web - doing Archie and Gopher searches. But the convenience became awfully convenient.

Props to you.

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Thanks, Jim, we're of about the same era... I started making money with computers in the FIRST half of my teens, then got a job writing an operating system in machine language using the 6809 chip when I was 15 in the late 1970s. . . . So, I'd guess we're about the same age. Like you, I was on the net LONG before non-geeks even knew there was a net.

I have definitely, knowingly, and with intention kept my integrity while knowing full well I'd do better financially if I didn't. But SOMEBODY has to tell the fuckers where they can stuff it and try and find a better way. Today, in the computing world, this is best exemplified by the open-source community's coming together to replace the expensive, siloed operating systems, "desktop software" like Microsoft Office with alternatives like OpenOffice and LibraOffice, etc.

BTW, back to GoDaddy for a moment: Canceling hosting with no notice is horrific, BUT, unlike domain name registration, hosting is subject to subjective interpretations of terms of service. This is a KEY reason (among several others) why I tell people they should host their own stuff. The network bandwidth for a modest site isn't that expensive any more, and look what happens when you catch the short straw?! Disaster!

Anyway, looking forward to more exchanges; keep the peace.

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My dad built a 6502-based MOS KIM-1 clone in '76 or so - I was in high school then, the and the neighborhood kids would come around to see it - although it wasn't much. He did hook up a surplus Teletype keyboard to it for data entry, and a Hex LED display.

A few years later, he bought an Atari 400, and we joined the local Atari User Group to swap shareware on cassettes.

I was never a developer or programmer - always a computer journalist, writing about the technology and how it was changing things.

I met Dan Gookin online on a local BBS in the late '80s, then my roommate, Andy Rathbone, wrote "Windows for Dummies" when Gookin turned it down.

I was an advisory board member and volunteer curator for the Computer Museum of American in the 1990s and early 2000s; still host their old archived web site at http://computer-museum.org.

Great, exciting fun times when the tech was still new and online was wide-open.

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OOPS! Editorial error:

This sentence, starting with:

"And, by the way, I literally have interrupted my work..."

was supposed to include "in order to write this reply." That is, I am continuing that work in just a few minutes!

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LOL. Like guaranteed next-day delivery is a requirement for a good life. Seems though a lot of people have been conditioned to expect this.

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Same day/next day/two day delivery is purely an addiction I planning to overcome.

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Bezos uses the insane profits from AWS to unwrite the huge losses on the e-commerce side putting hundreds of thousands done small business out of business.

Last time we asked, Amazon isn’t willing to support our Little League program or sponsor the 4th of July fireworks in our town like small businesses historically have done.

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Ignore and don't feed the trolls-- that applies to almost every obnoxious thing in life. The "trolls" need attention to be able to use their righteousness and self appointed authority. Who died and made them god?

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Agreed. To quote the Beastie Boys: "I'm like Ma Bell, I've got the the ill communication!"

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Personally I think this Beastie Boys quote sums up our reality right now:

"It's not a tough decision, as you can see,

I can blow you away or you can ride with me."

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"I'll ride with you if you can get me to the border.

The sheriff's after me for what I did to his daughter. "

I couldn't resist.

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I did it like this!

I did it like that!

I did it with a whiffle ball bat!

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Too bad they didn't choose the word "with" instead of "to."

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Absolutely! That actually got me thinking of one more; Beastie Boys were almost as prophetic as The Simpsons: "So, so, so, so listen up, 'cause you can't say nothin'. You'll shut me down with a push of your button."

(Note: I must've screwed up posting this about a half-dozen times already.)

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"I'd like to see you try boycotting Amazon."

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Exactly. Corporate monopolies have become too powerful, market forces will not correct them. A few million doled out here and there to leftist causes buys them immunity from criticism. The left has been corporatized and it was a cheap sellout. They need to wake up. The right and libertarians

sold out a long time ago.

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But wait, I've seen threats of violence on this website. Surely AWS will be dropping it shortly right?

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If substack were to attract more journalists and grow big enough threaten corporate media they would bring down the hammer. Amazon ignores the small fry and people are duped into thinking Parler was an exception. Parler was a business threat to big tech monopolies.

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Was there ever any doubt whatsoever in your mind that this would happen?

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In a just society Brennan would be in prison, and Snowden would be appearing on cable news.

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Brennan is building a coalition. Of enemies.

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Brennan is an Authoritarian Tyrannical STATIST Communist..not a Socialist.

Think of him as Stalin and Bernie Sanders as Lenin.

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I hope so.

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I’d add, cancel the subscription to the Times, which is no longer an objective source of news. It was like breaking an addiction after decades, but I feel better now.

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Had no trouble dropping the NYT (and its clone the Boston Globe) years ago - actually after the obscene Iraq war where they played a large role in starting it. Now it's Glenn, JimmyDore, Matt Taibbi, NakedCapitalism, Aaron Mate, Ron Placone, Chris Hedges, Lee Camp, David Swanson, Caitlin Johnstone, Max Blumenthal, Ray McGovern, Consortium News, and many other independents. I hope they survive the upcoming repression of the Biden evil doers. Look what the US is doing to Julian Assange and Edward Snowden for reporting truth about war crimes and the gov't in general.

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(And its other clone, the Washington Post.) I follow some of the folks you mention, e.g. Taibbi and Hedges, and I’ve discovered that I get a lot of good perspective and news from the balanced coverage of Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti. Will look into the others. I also find myself dipping into the content of black conservatives like the brilliant Glenn Loury and his more moderate colleagues, John McWhorter and Coleman Hughes. I second your comment about Snowden and Assange. The treatment of these two is unconscionable and shameful.

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I also follow Krystal and Saagar (forgot to mention them, shame on me my bad) and I also recommend their balance. They are both excellent and I follow them. I'll check out your other recommendations, thank you. Always looking for independent points of view. Long before and then when WaPo was purchased by Bezos I figured it was a goner and so just dumped it, sad considering Dan Ellsberg and the courage he displayed about the Vietnam war. Too many have sold out for $$$. Goodness I loathe capitalism these days. There are many other independent journalist like StatusCoup's Jordan Chariton and his relentless coverage of the Flint lead water crisis (and Obama's collusion) and his coverage about the North Dakota pipeline I am forgetting, my bad again. Let's hope others chip in and add more of these journalists? Also Let's hope these independents can continue safely - takes much courage these days to stand up for presenting real news. And contributions - which I do. You should too!! David Sirota as well!!

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Agreed about Assange and Snowden, and Krystal, though Saagar is -YAWN!- ... but I don't know the others you cite. Hmmm... Will try and look, though time is short.

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Good list AND, we should be pressureing the holy fuck out of Biden and his administration to STOP pursuing Assange and Snowden. Neither have been convicted, but a "pardon" would end the witch hunts permanently.

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Biden’s approach for both will be to ignore Snowden and Assange.

He’s on board with the IC and will simply shove them down the memory hole knowing that he who controls the MSM controls the narrative.

Which is why I’m here.

I know many of you will object, but paying Glenn $50 for a 1 yr. subscription is an old media model that Rush Limbaugh was forced to adopt because corporate media doesn’t like real journalists speaking real truth to power no matter where they reside ideologically. I hope Glenn is as successful in building a direct to subscriber audience as Limbaugh has done the last 30 years.

It’s nice to know there are more Mike Royko types out there in the world of journalism than you would have expected to find at the NYT and WaPo.

My nominee for the Mike Royko Speaking Truth to Power Award for 2020 goes to Glenn Greenwald.

I vehemently disagree with him ideologically, yet he understands like Chomsky that you either believe in free speech or you don’t.

It truly is a binary choice. I choose free speech.

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True conservatives and liberals actual can and do agree on defense of civil liberties. I think this is why Glenn is attracting so many of both.

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Add Kevin Williamson to your list. He’s the one who writes for National Review and worked for the Atlantic of all of 1 week before being fired because the snowflakes in the newsroom don’t understand sarcasm, wit or irony.

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Writing for the National Review? Nothing to brag Bout.

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I cancelled WSJ. I had a subscription for 11 yrs. The newsroom is slanted now. And they still keep Peggy Noonan writing crazy old lady editorials

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Peggy is 20 years past her prime, but I read the WSJ every morning to keep my sanity of skip over her “gee, why can’t this be like the 80’s?’ drivel.

Her spot ought to go to Heather McDonald from City Journal.

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Well done!

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It's essay writing 101 to establish credibility by pointing out how your point applies to "both sides." However, the fact that one has to go back 18 years (to a time of war, no less) to come up with a halfway decent example of "right wing" cancel culture should tell you something.

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Glenn could have used the examples of Rudy Guiliani and Marjorie Taylor Greene from a few weeks ago, when they threatened to "destroy" any Republican elected officials who refused to vote to block Electoral votes from certain states. Greene called them "traitors" and said they were being added to an enemies list; Guiliani called them "Quislings" - which either displayed gross historical ignorance or, more likely, gross partisan hyperbole. Either way, it was a very timely, current example of cancel culture from the Right.

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Except that Gulliani and Greene have no power to "cancel" anyone. They are more likely to get cancelled themselves.

Let's face it, everyone would cancel their opponents if they could. Only the side that controls the media and tech monopolies poses a practical threat of exercising such power.

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If you saw Jimmy Dore on with Tucker Carlson last Friday night on Fox..you’ve seen the future of Populism.

Hook up with other Populists and push for systemic change of politics as usual.....or wither on the vine.

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"...everyone would cancel their opponents.." That is false. I know it's true for almost all of the left, but almost everyone I know on the right understands the value of differing opinions.

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LAUGHABLY wrong. Once again, you're talking about neo-liberals NOT THE LEFT.

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The concept of "cancel culture" is I think grossly misused as applied to elected officials.

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That is true in the sense that only the voters can "cancel" an elected official.

But what if media and tech can bombard your constituents with propaganda while blocking you from defending yourself?

(Also, If the Democrats have their way, they will legally bar the American people from ever voting for Trump again. That's a political "cancellation" if ever there was one.)

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Whether it's AOC or MTG, the concept of a congressional member maintaining an "enemies list" of citizens simply for how they vote or whom they express support for is very concerning. Trying to run someone out of politics for how they vote, and using highly denigrating, dehumanizing words to describe them?

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

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enemies lists are pure fascism

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being a psycho asshole is pure fascism

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See, even we can agree on some things.

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AOC is doing what any politician does, and that’s build political capital which she can exchange for power. Real power.

Aren’t you just a little bit curious what Pelosi promised her to get her and the Squad to abandon #ForceTheVote and suckle up to her hind teet?

AOC needs 100 D members to support her ideology, but she’s too immature to understand she needs to either partner with 50-75 Trump Populists in the House and/or get an equivalent number of Democrat moderates to force some rule changes or Nancy Pelosi is going to keep treating her like the chid she is.

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I'm not really sure that the example qualifies as "cancel culture." The pursuit of political power is a zero-sum game, and working to condemn political opponents to political irrelevance or impotence is the way that politics work in free societies; the alternative as practiced in tyrannical regimes, imprisonment or physical exile, would be more the equivalent of "cancel culture," where a group of people attempt to destroy the lives of people outside of the domain of concern. I strongly agree with one of the following comments: like "virtue signaling," "cancel culture" is an overly used phrase. ("Virtue signaling" was never meant to refer to direct expressions of value judgments on topics commonly understood to be bound up with values; it was meant to refer to indirect expressions of value judgments when the expressions occur in relation to topics not generally considered opportunities to express a value judgment. For example, if I say to a coworker, "I think that I'm going to go to McDonald's to get a quick bite to eat for lunch," and the coworker responds by saying, "I refuse to eat fast food," the response is very often some kind of virtue signaling. The value judgment about fast food was neither requested nor desired, and the person seizes the opportunity to offer the opinion on fast food as a way to show some kind of virtue. From the value judgment on a relatively narrow topic, you might even be able to guess nearly all of the person's other opinions. By contrast, when discussing a topic like the potential social impact of fast food, if someone claims that fast food business exploit workers and the environment, the person is directly stating an opinion and not signaling.) Opposing someone in a zero-sum game like politics isn't an example of cancel culture unless you advocate destroying the person's livelihood in all other areas and excluding the person from the nations economic life or worse, advocate imprisonment or exile as Democrats seem to regularly do these days when they pursue nakedly political prosecutions against officials as happened with Rick Perry in Texas and Scott Walker in Wisconsin. Let's not dilute the concept of cancel culture by equivocation, by suggesting that cancel culture is any vigorous opposition in any domain at all. The dilution of the concept by dishonestly or incorrectly equating its tactics with normal, everyday behaviors is the means by which the practice becomes normalized.

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Those are what are known as battles..not wars.

Rudy wasn’t going to cancel anyone. He was trying to use pressure to change people’s outlook on things and without a complicit media eloping carry that message, he was no different than my Golden Retriever barking at the snow. It’s cute, but really harmless in the end. Rudy was a GREAT Mayor of NYC (they need one like him back, I’m hoping the CEO of Roivant does his IPO and runs), but when you spend too much time in the orbit of someone like Trump (Or PElosi), you don’t get to make the rules and you surely don’t walk away without heading to the showers to clean the filth off.

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This is a real howler / knee slapper:

"However, the fact that one has to go back 18 years (to a time of war, no less) to come up with a halfway decent example of "right wing" cancel culture should tell you something."

Yeah, well the right has been "canceling" everyone it hated since Roman times.

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!!! "Art" the "F!Art" !!!

Mindless brain flatulence

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Brain dead moron

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*on the clock

And in the context of a bit. Then he went home and banged Ariana Grande. That poor dear!

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Yeah, poor Pete. He really suffered consequences didn't he?

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And guess who went on air and accepted his apology not wanting to be part of the Cancel Culture instead of aiming for Davidson’s head...or his career?

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One aspect of cancel culture ... hell, sometimes I think our culture at large ... is that we seem to have lost our sense of humor. I didn't find the bit your refer to funny, but I sure know it was intended as comedy. I wish we'd all loosen up and laugh

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Who forced him to apologize? I’m curious.

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Probably Lorne Michaels because there was criticism across the board. Thankfully in this country, veteran's, especially those who have lost limbs or organs in defense of this country are held in esteem, even in most cases if they are a Republican. I would say that Davison did the minimum he needed to do and in fact over the following weeks seemed to walk it back. Crenshaw was the adult by brushing it off and accepting it. It didn't hurt Davison one bit and in fact elevated his standing among the resistance. The guy is a walking disaster though.

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How in the world could a military veteran have lost limbs or organs in defense of the United States? Nobody has attacked the United States.

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Define "United States" in terms of the real world.

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touche...you get a thumbs up.

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I see we are using the Obamacare definition of child. When I was 17 I was already in the military and did not consider myself a kid. Pete Davison was in no way a victim nor did he suffer any cancellation culture. You write as if you are either his mother or his agent.

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Your boycott suggestion is weak and pathetic. Boycotts will NOT protect free speech or the free press, corporate/woke monopolies and bankers are far too powerful for that. The free market is not free, stop pretending.

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He never suggested that boycotts would protect free speech, only that they're very different than these attempts to "cancel."

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Amazon (which crushed Parler and free speech) cannot be defeated with boycotts. There are those who suggest boycotts instead of real regulations, knowing that boycotts are ineffective against a monopoly. A weak and ineffective solution is sometimes deliberately proposed (by corporatist leaning libertarians for example) in place of a solution that would actually work. That's my issue with his proposal, I'm not against boycotts per se.

Standard Oil was not broken up with a boycott and to have suggested one (in place of government action) would have been disingenuous.

As for the Dixie Chics, they weren't fired directly by their employer like wilkinson was, so I don't think the comparison is valid. I support the Dixie chics and don't think much of wilkinson, by the way, but it's the principal I'm concerned with.

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Horseshit. Have you heard of Nazi hook burning?

Censorship can be imposed by any person or institution that has power over individuals. You know like Liberty University ... and Harvard and three popes over Martin Luther and Trump over Fauci ... ... ...

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lol - I think this is where I step aside, let e.pierce hop in, and you two can scream at each other for awhile ...

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hopping in is pure fascism!

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Liberty University had Bernie Sanders speak during his 2016 campaign. The students were respectful. Would Donald Trump or Ted Cruz have even had a chance to speak at an Ivy League University???

Think of Charles Murray being cancelled at Middlebury College ( and his recorded speech was rated at the very center of the political spectrum) https://www.newsweek.com/charles-murray-my-free-speech-ordeal-middlebury-564419 and https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/charles-murray-defended-by-the-new-york-times

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hearing anything is pure fascism

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C'mon man. Yoko had quite a set of pipes. Kiss Kiss Kiss on the Double Fantasy album was classic Ono. <JK> ROTFLMAO!

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Better be careful. Biden may have a trademark on "c'mon man," or is it ESPN? Not sure.

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"Walking on Thin Ice" was her revenge on a generation that blamed her for the breakup of The Beatles ...

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use realclearpolitics as a filter and then apply your own filter to weed out some junk on there, and you get a set of decent stuff. this greenwald article is featured. Is there a liberal version of RCP that anyone knows about - i feel like RCP includes left voices but either they're the equivalent of Alan Colmes (weak and lame on purpose) or the left is pretty vacant. I guess the left's stronger voices are Greenwald, Taibbi, etc. but they have cast them out to some sort of "center".

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also, though it's frayed around the edges a bit in the past year, Reuters still plays it pretty straight.

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I, personally, disagree about Reuters. Even RCP has been a let down for me, as a conservative. Just my opinion.

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Excellent comment, thanks.

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Indeed, one is corporate collusion, the other is the free market system.

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Thank you. My feelings exactly.

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A comment made in jest becomes serious when it can be perceived as a threat.

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A comment made in jest becomes serious when it *is* perceived as a threat *by a reasonable person.*

The problem arises when reason is in short supply, or when, as Matt suggests here, the claimed perception of threat is disingenuous.

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*Glenn

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I am threatened by your comment.

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Meet me on Twitter, let's get 'im!

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Oh seriously? the last part of the sentence is vague and can be interrupted SO many ways. I really hate Virtue signalling

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Careful that you don't choke yourself clutching your pearls.

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Even an idiot would not interpret the comment about Pence as a threat. It would take an asshole, pretending to be an idiot, and a hedge fund manager fits the bill.

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A fine example of how the passive voice eviscerates meaning.

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Guess you dont listen to comedy much

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What I find amusing is they dropped Dixie, but kept Chicks. Ain't that sexist? Wink.

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Nope. They are now going by "The Chicks".

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Very few people actually have the courage to stand against their peers and proclaim something is wrong.

I'm very happy that GG is one of those people.

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How telling that AntiFA can, for OVER A YEAR, hold anti-Trump rallies, burn down countless buildings, drive numerous small businesses into bankruptcy, beat a journalist into a coma, and try to barricade federal officers into a building to burn them alive, and not a peep from Twitter (or Biden for that matter). But hold ONE anti-Biden rally, and Twitter leaps in, sanctimoniously. At this point, they're just insulting our intelligence.

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During the summer ANTIFA was just an idea. Now that they are protesting Biden, they are dangerous insurrectionists.

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Christopher Wray testified that Antifa is "more of an idea" than an actual organization, and this is used constantly by Democrat lawmakers, and other establishment figures. Now that Antifa is (still) protesting in Seattle and Portland, (We don't want Biden, we want revenge...) and vandalized a Democrat Party office building after the inaugaration, I wonder if they will still be considered as such.

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They called in the national guard the day after the election in Portland.

It's clear the "rules" have changed.

I have my doubts that these people will care. You can't control the Red Guard.

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You can’t control the brown shirts. You can’t control the Brownshirts.

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Lol

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Yes, but I don't think the point is to insult our intelligence. I've come to believe that the blatantness of the double standard is exactly the point: it's a show of force.

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My thought as well. A de-sensitization, if you will, so that more and more censorship and authoritarianism will be accepted without significant push-back.

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To me it's just sort of Machiavellian: “Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? One should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it is much safer to be feared than loved.”

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I notice that you mentioned anti-Trump rallies first, as if they desecrated a cathedral.

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"At this point, they're just insulting our intelligence."

...or yours anyway...

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What buildings did they burn down? That Minneapolis burning wead by right wing domestic terrorists abd the cops took their sweet time identifying snd arresting ... remind you of any recent events ... ? Hmmm.

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I'll send you links if you'd like, of federal buildings they set on fire. As far as small businesses, there are numerous youtube videos of business owners who've defaulted on the blocks they've taken over.

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The pandemic is the most pressing cause of small business losses, not some people angry that the police shoot and kill FAR too many innocent people, not that you care of course. -shrug-

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You don't have to actually burn down buildings to make your city an unlivable shithole.

People now avoid downtown Portland.

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"That Minneapolis burning wead by right wing domestic terrorists"

Right.

And in a few months a gigantic bunny is going to be hopping around your yard shitting chocolate eggs that you and the other children can find and squeal in delight as you do.

"What is worth knowing, he doesn’t know and doesn’t want to know; what he knows is not true. The cardinal articles of his credo are the inventions of mountebanks; his heroes are mainly scoundrels."

~ H.L. Mencken

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Building are pure fascism.

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At the post-graduate/doctoral level, even at a place such as Yale, the greatest fear, certainly in the humanities, is to be wrong about something, or merely to be thought wrong. So, what happens is doctoral students end up doing a version of self-censorship. Thus research, the willingness to try, to err, and then to move on in an effort to expand our knowledge and understanding is diminished.

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I know several PhDs that have changed careers because of cancel culture and the general decline of values, etc. It doesn't end even when people finish grad school.

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My husband dropped out of graduate school because of this.

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This is unbelievably sad. I graduated college in 79, and law school in 82. My ed experience was fantastic. Exposure to news ideas without indoctrination. Education should not be about manufacturing minions.

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We are of about the same vintage. I had the same kind of experience as an undergrad and still later, mostly, as a professional student at Yale (Divinity). At the time even the most liberal of the students approached "political correctness," which was right about then coming online, with a twinkle in their eye and a certain gentle dose of irony/mockery. Exchanges of ideas and disageements were robust and passionate, but rarely were they destructive, self- or otherwise.

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Gotta say it. Those were the days! Felt worked to death at the time, but even then and moreso later, I really value(d) the experience.

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Self censorship in higher academia causes brain damage. The brain is not allowed to think or speculate in so many areas. Instead of producing free thinking leaders the universities produce mentally crippled followers.

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That's the problem with Twitter - comments are not in context. The best thing to do about Twitter is get off of it.

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I struggle with this. You could well be right. I just can't decide if it is nobler in the mind to take up arms against the sea of ignorance on Twitter, and by opposing end them... or to disempower Twitter by leaving all together. Perhaps it's true that "sometimes the only way to win is not to play the game." I'm just not sure.

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Having just given up social media myself, I have a lot more peace in my life. I’m reading more, and putting my phone down more. I struggled with the decision as well, and what convinced me was that I don’t want to be a part of anything that makes a profit while censoring entire viewpoints.

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Thank you very much for the insights, everyone. It's a big help. I'm leaning toward toward dropping my remaining accounts. Curious, would any opinions change if it meant using ostensibly less censored platforms like Gab or MeWe?

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The only need to be on Twitter is a felt need or desire. There is no necessity involved. There is no real benefit. It deals in insignificant comments more than anything else.

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I beg to differ. There are a lot of very smart scientists, professors, and just plain people on Twitter I'd never hear about if it weren't for their Twitter. It's also where independent journalists have a voice. It isn't just politics. Same for youtube. I've tried to use the newer alternative platforms, but these sorts of people aren't there just yet. If you live in the relative sticks like I do now, it's still the most efficient way to get useful and accurate information on many subjects.

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I'm not on Twitter, though I know it exists. And, yes, you are right as to possible beneficial uses. For instance, I have heard that there are what I guess are private Twitter chat-rooms for people in a particular discipline in which they exchange ideas and so forth. I would still argue, though, that this does not represent a necessity, but rather still a felt need. What is the acronym about being left out, or the last one to know, or some such thing? Life can go on very easily without such technology. I will admit to being a regular viewer of the PBS Space Time channel, but I also know that my life, while somewhat enriched -- and certainly intrigued -- by learning what I do there, would not be that diminished without it.

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Isn't that a little silly? Other than protection from the elements, food, water and maybe sex, nothing is an absolute necessity. Am i supposed to just sit in my living room, make sure the plumbing works, and say Hi to the neighbors once in a while? Why pick only on Twitter? Let's just close down the internet altogether, then, since life can go on (we won't die) very easily without such technology.

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To be sure, Twitter is an easy target. I guess what many would argue, or at least suggest, is that absent technology such as this, we would all be saying hello to our neighbors much more often than we do now. When I grew up, the worst form of parental punishment was to be told to come inside. I understand now that for children to be cast out into the out of doors away from their screens seems to them most cruel. (I am painting with a wide brush.) In the past I have strolled about neighborhoods where I know there are children, and they are ghostly. No one is outside simply playing. I am grateful that where I live now, one does see children outdoors, walking with each other, riding bikes, I even saw some with fishing poles walking to a nearby brook. All this in my eyes appears much more enriching and of lasting value, and it contributes much more to cognitive and social development. I am not alone in this. In this Guardian article we read about how there is a trend in Silicon Valley for Those Who Know to send their children to tech-free schools. This is not to banish such technology, but rather to be far more discerning in our use of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/26/children-tech-addicts-schools

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Never argue with stupid people they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain

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Get off twitter. I spend a lot of time reading Glenn and and the wonderful comments here. I'm not on F'book or twitter either. I have better things to do than stick emojis on stuff. Read a book like E

EPThompson's The Making of the English Working Class. Or Soul on Ice.

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Soul on Ice, Eldridge Cleaver? I remember reading that in about 6th or 7th grade. it kind of sticks with you.

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Hamlet? better to leave. I'm working on it.

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It’s 2021. We live, work, play, shop, socialize, and date online.

Saying “just don’t have a public voice, or participate in the mainstream of social life” is not a clever comment anymore. For a Boomer retiree, it might still make sense, but few people under the age of 55 will find it easy to disconnect from online communities.

The digital commons are the commons. You’re lucky if your job does not require you to use Zoom or social media, and you can get by in life without an online presence. You’re in a shrinking minority, if so.

Ice cream socials and bowling nights aren’t coming back... and a writer for the New York Times isn’t going to develop much of a following by staying offline. We need to fix the online commons, not withdraw from them and sneer at the world.

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Makes me glad I'm 64

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I'm glad I'm 76, just not old enough.

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"It’s 2021. We live, work, play, shop, socialize, and date online."

And you don't have to do ANY of that on Twitter OR facebook.

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I'm working on it...

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First they came for the Trumpers, but I wasn't one, so I cheered them on...

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First they came for the pro-Palestinians, and I am one, and the Trumpers cheered them on.

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Rather telling that your victimhood is so partisan. In fact, the democrats - notably Cuomo, Clinton, obie, and kamala, are all staunch anti-BDSers, cuomo going so far as to issue orders to fire any govt employee in support in any way - even speech - of the BDS movement. If you're going to play victim, you ought choose your truths and your allies a little better

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