We quickly went from 'the labs don't exist' to 'okay they exist but they are benevolent' to 'if the labs fall into Russian hands there will be a biological attack'.
You mean the one where she said: "So on that piece Geoff, when I wrote the note [Jake] Sullivan's come back to me VFR , saying you need Biden and I said probably tomorrow for an atta-boy and to get the deets to stick. So Biden's willing."
Worth noting too that in that recording she demonstrates such impressive verbal fluency/quick command of language that it is impossible to chalk up the exchange with Rubio to unintended awkward phrasing or whatever they will claim.
Propaganda is sleight of words so fascinating as magicians sleight of hands. I have studied it for years. I know most standard tricks.
Maddow and O'Donnell were excellent propagandists, always spouting extremely one sided very biased "truths," often out of context (one of the tricks). Six months before the 2020 election they resorted to crappy lying propaganda. I don't know if they panicked or they were always just actors, their excellent propagandist writer left, and a crappy one filled the vacancy.
You can watch it on Rumble, Odyssey, Gab, or Ben Swann's new platform - SOVREN - for free. Because the last two mentioned above don't believe in censorship or suppression - and they are fighting the best fight on behalf of our freedoms.
I've been thinking that someone should set up a "date night" between Hunter Biden and Taylor Shabusiness (if the name doesn't resonate, a quick news search should remedy that). It's seems a perfect match. One potential obstacle is that the woman may be incarcerated by the time this can be accomplished. In that case, I suppose it could be a "conjugular visit"... <g,d &r>
Yes. That is where the stratospheric delusional fairy tale ideals that destroyed the economies of half the world were dreamed. The dreamers went to school at 6 years old and never left. They are still there with 6 year old minds indoctrinating naive young people with the lovely, non-functional in almost all societies, fairy tale dream theories. Eastern Europe's and other parts of Asia's economies crashed and burned under those.
The recent surge in more communist policies, distribution according to need (socialist distribution is the same as capitalist: according to contribution), is crashing and burning our economy now (increasing consumption by non-producers) after it was bashed by the hysterical shutdown. The shutdown was demanded by today's thumb-sucking baby citizens. I'm not sure their "daddies and mommies" in government didn't push that to increase their "we know better than you do" domination.
My own stratospheric libertarian ideals are also non-functional in all societies except possibly the ultra-disciplined, very orderly Japanese one. That society does successfully practice some socialism and might be able to successfully practice communism.
"China has called on the US to release the details of the Pentagon’s biological research programs in Ukraine. “The United States, as the party that knows the laboratories best, should release relevant specific information as soon as possible, including what viruses are stored and the research that has been carried out,” said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian."
Yes they did. All because nobody in a position of power has the will or capacity to can failures. Lincoln did it during the civil war. One can list over a dozen military officers of various ranks who were demoted or outright canned for their failures. Now, not only are the left off the hook, but are allowed to go and make fortunes in civilian life>
Having a background in the biological sciences, and a degree in nursing as well, I do know that there are biological labs in many countries and even countries that are not secure, and that poses a significant problem. If something happens, an accident, since I don't think the Russians would intentionally target these labs, we have a a very big problem. I never said the Chinese do not lie, but in this instance it's the truth and I think there are some 30 labs there. The most corrupt nation in Europe has 30 labs and I wonder why in God's name we are funding them.
It is too soon to say it is true. Ukraine had the highest concentration of scientific workers in the USSR. I wonder, how many of these labs were in place back then and have remained. Also biological labs are not the same as bio-warfare labs. Every developed country and many developing countries have biolabs. All will be revealed with time.
You seem to have the narrow world view as a cultist. I meant like WMDs, the Iraqi Al-Quaeda alliance, the back story behind the the overthrow of Allende, The Pentagon Papers, The Panama Papers, My Lai, Russiagate, The Contra War, the death of Che Guevara, the murder of Polish troops at Katyn, The famine in Ukraine in the 193Os, etc, etc, etc,. And maybe one day Roswell and the JFK assassination too.
In the end, I am 99.99% sure that among the world's shadow biolabs, that 'scientists' from the US, EU, Russia and China are all working together in at least one of them.
At this point the most radical conspiracy theories are merely very early spoilers.
We cannot believe anything our governments tell us, and it is now very plain that we should not, as they are demonstrable liars. My personal policy is that, if they should tell me the sun in shining, I will check the nearest window. We're long past Reagan's "Trust but Verify!" now, and deep into "Never Believe Anything Until It Is Officially Denied" territory.
I used to think that boy who cried wolf was an accurate representation of human psychology. I was wrong. Because power can indeed cry "wolf" over and over again, and the peasants will clutch at their "guns and bibles".
Maybe the boy's mistake was not making it a 'new' threat each time.
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." - buhs
Apparently, the US has 336 biolabs in 30 countries.
Some fun facts from “The Project for a New American Century and the Age of Bioweapons: 20 Years of Psychological Terror”:
“This anthrax attack led quickly into the 2004 Bioshield Act with a $5 billion budget and mandate to “pre-empt and defend further bioweapon attacks”. This new chapter of the revolution in military affairs was to be coordinated from leading bioweapons facility at the Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick. Since 2002, over $50 billion has been spent on Bioweapons research and defense to date.
The earlier October 2000 RAD document emphasized the importance which the neocon cabal placed on bioweapons (and other next generation war tech) stating: “Combat will likely take place in new dimensions: In space, cyber-space and perhaps the world of microbes… advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.”
There is always a potential danger from these labs and not just in Ukraine, but they are all over the place, and in countries that are not stable. I never understood that. I don't understand why the US would be funding the labs in Ukraine especially since it sees Russia as such a potential threat, and knows the possibility of them becoming a potential biological threat.
They are very intent on skipping the part where crimes against humanity committed by thousands of bureaucrats internationally are punished. Very intent.
Which strongly suggests to me that WHO has known of the US biowarfare labs in the Ukraine for quite some time. I guess I shouldn't be terribly surprised at the breadth of the US/Globalist Deep State shennanigans, but I try very hard not to conjure up conspiracy theories where there is a simpler explanation. In this case, I cannot think of one.
"The WHO would not say when it had made the recommendation nor did it provide specifics about the kinds of pathogens or toxins housed in Ukraine's laboratories. The agency also did not answer questions about whether its recommendations were followed."
-------
I agree this suggests the WHO has known about the labs, but disagree that covers Nuland's ass at all.
When I wrote "moved to" I thought a reader would assume it was an attempt. I probably should have been more specific. To completely cover Nuland's ass would take a huge tarpaulin (virtual or literal) indeed...
It’s hard to believe what’s true. Russia used the labs as propaganda to say we worked with Ukraine developing dangerous chemical weapons. For 2 weeks that’s a lie. Now, much like they did to trump up the Iraq war, we claim that these dangerous labs exist, and if Putin got it’s hand on them it could have dire consequences. It’s like a light bulb went off, we can use scare tactics to get the public behind our bullshit war. I mean you’d think it would be a hard sell to convince Americans some dispute over a piece of territory in Eastern Europe would have any effect on Americans.
No body forgot Vietnam. There was no plebiscite on Vietnam, or Iraq, or Afghanistan. As for you Chinese professor, the Uighers aren’t Han Chines. Neither are the Tibetans. Or the Vietnamese. Doesn’t that mean China is also indulging in racist wars. You have bought into a line of thought that the West is the most evil empire in the planet. While the West has a brutal history, it affords its citizens a degree of liberty and freedom that is the marvel of the world. Is it perfect, don’t be stupid. If I’m lying move to Cuba, Russia, China, Uzbekistan, Myanmar……
Interesting takes...though both are faulty. To claim that skin color is the reason for Vietnam is beyond absurd. Do you honestly think that if Yugoslavia had revolted during the Cold War that the US would not have intervened? And 3.5 million? I've looked at the higher end numbers and have not come within 2.5 million of that...and the figure of 1 million is death from all causes. My father is a Vietnam vet, he's told me since my teens of what went on there, and, among other tings, that the VC were treated the worst by the South Koreans. It makes sense, they suffered an invasion 15 years prior to my father's deployment and had no use for such rabble.
Ukraine strikes a chord because of Russiagate and the legacy press. You know, the same legacy press that claim Ukraine is a democratic country.
On the other hand, no referendums were allowed in any of those countries because of power. Additionally, referendums in Iraq would have split it into three warring factions, the Kurds, the Sunni Arabs and the Shia Arabs. Afghanistan would have been similar given it's large Tajik minority. The sad truth is that nobody in power cares about their wishes, along with the Tibetans and Uighurs. Ironically, in the past 100 years, Chinese have increased their percentage of the population of Sinking from 2% to 45% through colonization, much like Stalin did with Ukraine and Kazakhstan, flooding them with Russians.
The west has caused it's share of tragedies which need to be acknowledged, however they need to be acknowledged in the context of humanity. People can be brutal, period. They also need to be acknowledged without attempts at self-loathing by painting everything in the lens of race.
I do not condone or defend the imperial or colonial actions of any nation. Every nation, in my opinion, regardless of the dominant ideology is within their rights to liberate their nation from foreign occupation. That includes the Vietnamese, the Afghans, Polisario, the Timorese, the Ukrainians, etc. Of course things aren’t always that simple. The Vietnamese ouster of the PolPot regime might an instance where the issue presents as gray.
First compared to the East and North, Ukraine was and is a democratic government. It became more democratic after 2014 when the old Party-boss/oligarch model was pretty much wiped out. You forget that Russia too was a brief democracy before Putin eliminated any viable opposition..
You nonetheless implied there was validity to that figure. It's much like people who point to the USSR having murdered 'over 65 million' people. It's a distorted figure but it's used for useful idiots, much as figures of 'under 20 million' are (as even Khrushchev admitted the 20 million figure, and he had to walk a careful line not to make Stalin out to be too much of a villain or else loose credibility for himself). Furthermore the 1 million figure involves all fatalities from all sides put together, including the post-war red terror. I used that figure to show simply how absurd the one you cite is. The truth itself is horrendous enough, there is no need to inflate figures to fit a specific narrative, if anything that causes damage by delegitimizing what really happened. Look at the people who claim that Stalin's man-made famine in Ukraine killed 20 million in Ukraine, or even 10 million in Ukraine. Avoiding both that rot and the 'Stalin wasnt that bad' rot, you have 10 million dead in Ukraine, Kazakhstan, the north Caucasus and south Belarus combined. It's the same kind of delegitimization of the truth for personal aims and causes the same damage.
You mention proof, what proof do you have that there was a deliberate campaign to exterminate the Vietnamese? You speak of genocide yet all you have is your opinion on the internet no less. If you seek to claim that an author's book is the proof, that falls far short of the extraordinary evidence to back your extraordinary claims. I could site RFK Jr. as 'proof' that 'vaccines cause autism.' I know that, 9/11 being an inside job and the 'brither' claims are all BS but still. John Kerry got famous by making similar accusations and that's the only reason he got anywhere in politics, well that and marrying into money. What is there to make you think that McNamara isn't doing the same thing, trying to both remain relevant long after the conflict ceased and make money?
As for my father, he was stationed in 1968 in Tai Ninh or "rocket city in rocket alley" and worked retrograde. He saw, as he put it, how the human body worked without the skin covering it and had US troops die in his arms during large-scale mortar and rocket assaults and has difficulty watching any kind of medical show on TV or gory war movie as a result, even knowing that reenactments and special effects are fake. He spoke of how VC POWs always were beaten to a pulp by the South Koreans, something which makes sense as it was then only 15 years previous that the communist-sponsored invasion of South Korea ended and the South Koreans had no use for such rot. They should have directed the entire conflict.
You mention vets not wanting to have anything to do with you. I wonder why. You make unsupported claims based on no evidence I am aware of other than a few books, nothing of which can be corroborated. You also make claims about what people told you, yet what is there other than your account that any of it happened? Were their statements collected and verified? If so, where and how many people did you collect statements from? Were they from troop deployments in one place, one base, or scattered throughout the entire countryside and on US naval vessels? If they were scattered, were they collated proportionally to the troop numbers? Also, what years are you speaking of? You have a lot of holes to fill in if one is to even begin to believe an ounce of truth in what you say, and if you choose not to elaborate further, I honestly don't blame the majority of the Vietnam Vets for not wanting to associate with you. However, if you do have evidence beyond your mere personal POV and books without any confirmation, by all means, present it.
I do believe that your post is a case of self loathing due to the racial component, as it shares a lot of similarities with the garbage being spouted from the fountain of sewage called CRT. I am well aware of the racism that was within the US army during the late 60s and undoubtedly 70s as well, my father told me about it from a young age, whether from an officer who repeatedly mocked people of African descent when constantly beating them in checkers (he also said he watched how the guy played, and after awhile, crushed him, then trolled him). I was also told about a black draftee who had a football scholarship take shrapnel to the neck to knock down a white supremacist when he froze during incoming rounds...and the bastard never thanked him. Waste of two lives, one in the garbage who had his life saved yet could care less, the other in the unrealized potential of the true man who made the sacrifice all soldiers are trained to do and as a result, lost a shot at a well paying career. He also mentioned race based bar fights, chiefly in Basic, but also some overseas.
For good reason, too. Western atrocities get aired, Western societies learn and correct, Western Peoples progress (REAL progress, not the "progress" of Progressives).
The danger to humanity remains the same always: Fascists who go international.
Obama, Joe Biden, George Soros, John Brennan, John Kerry, Victoria Nuland, John McCain were ALL involved in the CIA Coup in Ukraine of 2014. It was the US (not Russia) who INVADED Ukraine - the US invaded Ukraine in 2014 - with that Coup.
100 innocent people were massacred in the main square of Kiev, by Snipers hired by OUR CIA. (by Eric Ciaramella, to be specific, under Brennan orders).
The Military-Industrial Complex and the CIA/NSA/NRO always need Wars, to sell weapons and to make $$$ Billions. No Wars = No money. To make Wars, they also need to manufacture Enemies, in the eyes of the gullible sheeple. The CIA controls all the TV Networks, and all the major newpapers, in the US and in Europe. The CIA Propaganda Machine.
It's wonderful and after reading I tried to add you as a paid subscription to my long list and it popped up a notice that said my card didn't support "this type of transaction".. Substack then happily added a different writer to my list with the one tick of a box so Substack has no problem w the card. If it happened to me there must be others too so check it out... support is too hard to accumulate to have more tech against you. :~)
Thank you, Pamela! - and thank you for letting me know. I will contact Substack support: it is the 2nd time in 3 days someone tells me this. May be some CIA mole at Substack or at Stripe doing the boycotting (they are everywhere).
This is not new: in Sept 2020, Amazon suppressed 2 of my 4 books. That happened 50 days before the elections. So I know I was over the target: I know who are the masterminds of the operation.
Thank you again, Pamela! - I will contact you by email
The only people in the West who believe the Maidan was a US coup have been reduced to either cultists of the left or the right, and Oliver Stone.. The name Nuland is their dog whistle and whenever her name is mentioned, the howling starts. Note many of the comments. Nuland was nothing more than a mid-level functionary, she was in Kyiv in 2014 because Kyiv was a State Department backwater. Look it up. Elevating her to the level of a political svengali and point person for US global expansion is a comedy, it is absurd on the face of it. On the other hand, objective histories of the Maidan are available. The unwillingness of some people to read more broadly is inexcusable. Venues like this, seem to allow proponents of these views to imagine themselves to be part of a powerful and growing consensus. They are wrong. Since the Maidan , millions of young Europeans travelled to Ukraine, it was cheap and fun, they did not find a country run by fascists. Instead, they found a country struggling to free itself from the lethargy and brutality of Putin’s Russia. The small circle of pro-Russian, pro-LPR/DRP, Putin supporters and apologists is shrinking by the day. Thank heavens there will always be venues like this for people like Greg Rubini. By the way, Greg, Hitler started WWII. You are a complete and utter idiots.
We've been through this before, and you keep trying to argue from shame and emotion. It's a habit with you.
That said, "undersecretary of state" is hardly some "midlevel functionary". Among other things, it's a presidential appointment.
For that matter, Zbigniew Brzezinski pointed out about Ukraine being key to undermining Russia. It's not "some backwater". For that matter, what kind of wack Senate Committee asks flunkies and "midlevel functionaries" to testify? And it's not the first time. Why, it's almost as if this midlevel functionary in some backwater is of some importance in the halls of power!
I am willing to believe that these labs may in fact be benign, but what we have been told so far just raises questions.
Relative to US interests in Russia, Ukraine has always been a backwater, Zbig B has been irrelevant in US policy since the days of Carter. He was washed up under Reagan. As for Nuland, her testimony before Rubio's committee demonstrates what a mediocrity she is. I'm no face of Russia but I acknowledge, Nuland probably couldn't cut it in Lavrov's Foreign ministry. If you are incapable of em option in the face of war, you may be a nihilist. Watch out Finster.
A cursory search of the career of Zbigniew Brzezinski would indicate something very different than what you claim.
For that matter, so would a google search of the words "Zbigniew Brzezinski influence".
Then again, since these allegations are coming from the person who claims that Nuland was a "midlevel functionary" and that we are engaged in brinksmanship potentially leading to WWIII over a backwater of no strategic importance, which leads me to conclude that you are making shit up.
Zbig B. was always a Kissinger wannabe. If and administration couldn’t get Kissinger, Zbig was the go to. He is a mediocrity which reinforces my earlier point, that there is more conformity that brains running US foreign policy. Ukraine was a backwater and Nuland was a mid-level apparachik.
Why would you be willing to believe that? Even if (huge if) the nominal and advertised purpose of the labs was to research defensive measures against bioterrorism, you don't think it's a slam dunk that assholes in the CIA and other natsec orgs were waiting with bated breath to leverage any and all developments for offensive purposes? And you don't think that perversion of function would have been a strong motivation by at least some high-level functionaries in those orgs for the creation of those labs in the first place?
Trite but true. But that's just my problem with your willingness to believe. To me, the claim that these labs are benign is the more extraordinary. The US installed the current government of Ukraine, making it little more than a US proxy state. Why would the US then establish, help to establish, or even allow the establishment of, biological warfare labs that have the sole purpose of identifying defenses to bio attacks there? Do you seriously think it likely that the Ukraine regime undertook to establish these labs entirely on their own initiative? The crucial question to me is, if the labs are benign, why did the US NatSec apparatus think it necessary that they be located in Eastern Europe, instead of, say, in Betheda, Maryland? On the other hand, if the purpose of the labs is to research very dangerous biological agents for use by the US and allies in attacking opposing forces, locating those labs in a place with a population that US NatSec considers to be expendable, and that is relatively near to a theater where such agents might plausibly be deployed in the near future, makes a great deal of sense.
I think the US would be willing to use Ukraine for off the books research? Yes. This will all get sorted out sooner or later. My Amin point here is that Nuland is a tool, and not a bright one.
Ukraine was a backwater. Nuland was a martinet. Trump called out the state department functionaries as dim bulbs. Was he wrong, he was describing Nuland. Its funny a lot of people on the left and now the right like to insinuate that the DEEP State s filled with hacks, sycophants and idiots. And then hen these same people want to blame for US for nefarious acts, these same idiots become James Bond. Be real. You are defending Nuland's competence.
Do you not agree that the US Congress is filled with hacks? Do you not agree that those hacks leverage their power to do real damage? How is that argument different from the one you have posited and dismissed out of hand?
I agree with you about the political class. I agree that they can be/are cynical and dangerous. I’ll go further and say that the media, academia and the cultural elites are largely complicit. What I can not agree to is that a narrow spectrum of opinion, that runs counter to the dominant narrative, is by itself, always correct or true. The negation of a lie is not a proof of the truth. Lies can also, seemingly, be negated by other lies. We live in an age and a country when there is an overload of information. Anyone can find a point of view that corresponds to their own and one that is also supported by a limited group of like-minded thinkers. I have come to believe that the truth is elusive and that there is no select group of people who have a monopoly over it. Everything shred of news should be balanced against all other information. Knowledge is a process of synthesis, not memorization. A broad understanding of history helps. I struggle to find the truth like everyone else. But when people can not even agree on the basic facts or chronologies of a thing, what is the point of discourse?
It does indeed seem that the Deep state is filled with dimwits. Or the stupidest smart people. Mostly hardened ideologues.
The sad part is that these people do have all the power. And they use it. And that's why we are where we are. They are extremely afraid to lose the face. That's why the thought of openly admitting Ukraine will never be a NATO member is impossible for them.
Ukraine will join NATO when Russia becomes a democratic nations of laws. As long as a narrow military clique rules the Kremlin, the Russian people will have no input into the foreign or domestic policies of their nation. What is happening in Ukraine is not a war between the Russian and Ukrainian people, it is a result of the world view and paranoia of a single man and his retinue of yes men. Ukrainians and Russians have lived side by side, intermarried for years. This war has broken something that was very deep. Among Russians that know what is going on, this was war has brought a deep sense of shame. Sadly, the Russian people will now learn the true cost of unaccountable leadership.
What about Nuland's phone call to Jeffery Pyatt in which they discuss who should be Ukraine's next president? How do you work that into your narrative that this was not a US backed coup? Yes there were many in Ukraine who wanted to oust the elected president, but they were assisted by the US that wanted to oust a pro-Russian government, so they could install someone who would bow to our anti-Russia agenda. Biden calls for the IMF to let money flow into the Ukraine after the coup and somehow it flows back out, but through his son he caught some of it, and who knows how much more. Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe and the 9th most corrupt country in the world. Your denial of the degree of fascism in Ukraine is very disingenuous since they have already infiltrated the military. It is the main reason some 14, thousand have died in the Donbas, many of whom were of Russian ethnicity. Or answer the question why have statues of Bandera been erected in western Ukraine? By the way, don't underestimate neocons like Nuland, especially since her husband Kagan is one of the most, if not the most influential of neocons, and runs the Brooking's institute.
Fran, have you ever heard of Holodomor.? Have you ever read Solzhenitsyn? Have you ever heard of Nemtsov? Politskaya? The Chechen Wars? There is context to everything. You provide nothing, a slew of one line statements, none substantiated. I could start to take each of you comments on one at a time. I am going to wait until all the proPtiun trolls have finished and I’ll write an answer it once. A piece of advice, if everything you read comes from a narrow spectrum of sources, you might not grasp the complexity of certain issues. In fact you may not even grasp the true facts. Your paragra
The history of Russia and Ukraine does not begin with Victoria Nuland, it doesn’t end there either. The suppression of Ukrainian national aspirations by the Tsars, the USSR and Russia is a long tale. Your comments concerning the Ukrainians at Maidan do not recognize agency among Ukrainians. It is demeaning and arrogant. It is also light on context. Yanukovych was neither loved, nor liked nor admired by the Ukrainian people. He was a tool of oligarchs in Donetsk, a tough guy. A Soviet-style man, who won the Presidency by virtual default after years of incompetence and corruption by his predecessors. The Maidan revolt lasted 100 days. It began with student demonstrators who were beaten mercilessly by the militia. This created general revulsion across Ukraine and increasingly radicalized the population against the regime. Over time, brutal police tactics were met by street fighting units filled by former soldiers and young radicalized men. As the sides hardened, Russian paramilitary and intelligence resources were introduced to strengthen Yanukovych regime’s resolve. It ended with militia troops firing on unarmed demonstrators, killing about 100. These facts are accepted by almost everyone except the Kremlin and a small minority here in the west who discern the dark hand of the CIA everywhere. The Maidan was not the overthrow of Arbenz, Mossedegh or Allende. The closest recent analogy might be the Tahir Square uprising that toppled Mubarak. The west, in this case Nuland, had to step in, very late, to assure they would blunt the radicalized demands of the Ukrainian street. If Nuland or Obama had wanted to really upset relations with Moscow, they would have armed Ukraine. Remember Obama’ s reset. Victoria Nuland is no hero in Ukraine. Their interests are not hers and her interests are not theirs. The experts at State and the CIA expected the Ukraine to fold in three days. Biden did not want to exclude Russia from swift. He did not want to ban Russian oil sales. He is being dragged into this by the actions of Putin and the revulsion and fear it has generated in Europe. The US has never given a shit about Ukraine..
We quickly went from 'the labs don't exist' to 'okay they exist but they are benevolent' to 'if the labs fall into Russian hands there will be a biological attack'.
Oh, just a slight escalation. Next you are going to tell me Nuland was involved in an embarrassing leaked phone call about our efforts in Ukraine.
You mean the one where she said: "So on that piece Geoff, when I wrote the note [Jake] Sullivan's come back to me VFR , saying you need Biden and I said probably tomorrow for an atta-boy and to get the deets to stick. So Biden's willing."
That's the one!
link for anyone who wants it
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
Worth noting too that in that recording she demonstrates such impressive verbal fluency/quick command of language that it is impossible to chalk up the exchange with Rubio to unintended awkward phrasing or whatever they will claim.
Correct, she knew exactly what she was saying. The question is who told her to say it.
Yep.
"I misspoke"
"I misspoke. But Russia is still to blame!"
Since the revolution. Since forever.
Propaganda is sleight of words so fascinating as magicians sleight of hands. I have studied it for years. I know most standard tricks.
Maddow and O'Donnell were excellent propagandists, always spouting extremely one sided very biased "truths," often out of context (one of the tricks). Six months before the 2020 election they resorted to crappy lying propaganda. I don't know if they panicked or they were always just actors, their excellent propagandist writer left, and a crappy one filled the vacancy.
Watch Oliver Stone’s “Ukraine on Fire”
I’d like to, but YouTube just took it down, what a coincidence
and https://rumble.com/vwwx6g-ukraine-on-fire.html or any of these https://odysee.com/$/search?q=ukraine%20on%20fire
Steps have been taken to anti-censor
I was moved to watch it by YouTube's censorship. Good film. Gives the Eastern Ukraine perspective - that is totally ignored by MSM.
You can watch it on Rumble, Odyssey, Gab, or Ben Swann's new platform - SOVREN - for free. Because the last two mentioned above don't believe in censorship or suppression - and they are fighting the best fight on behalf of our freedoms.
https://youtu.be/ywdtmpK_AP0
Bitchute
Thank you for the reference. It is an eye-opener.
Not to worry, my friend.....
The 'fact-checkers' have assured us that such concerns are misplaced. There is no need reason for concern.
They asked that we go back to smoking our free crackpipes and leave any thinking to the experts.
Said sarcastically....
Did someone say free crackpipes?!? :)
Settle down, Hunter!
That’s beauty
The Finster aims to please.
Glad to see that you’re aware of The Upheaval substack, that dude is a monster, a titan.
I've been thinking that someone should set up a "date night" between Hunter Biden and Taylor Shabusiness (if the name doesn't resonate, a quick news search should remedy that). It's seems a perfect match. One potential obstacle is that the woman may be incarcerated by the time this can be accomplished. In that case, I suppose it could be a "conjugular visit"... <g,d &r>
spit take... :)
but are the fact checkers "experts"?
Then we really need to be worried
Yes they are: experts of the highest academic qualifications. You remember, "BS (Bull Shit), MS (More Shit), PhD (Piled High and Deep)".
Thanks, I needed that!
Yes. That is where the stratospheric delusional fairy tale ideals that destroyed the economies of half the world were dreamed. The dreamers went to school at 6 years old and never left. They are still there with 6 year old minds indoctrinating naive young people with the lovely, non-functional in almost all societies, fairy tale dream theories. Eastern Europe's and other parts of Asia's economies crashed and burned under those.
The recent surge in more communist policies, distribution according to need (socialist distribution is the same as capitalist: according to contribution), is crashing and burning our economy now (increasing consumption by non-producers) after it was bashed by the hysterical shutdown. The shutdown was demanded by today's thumb-sucking baby citizens. I'm not sure their "daddies and mommies" in government didn't push that to increase their "we know better than you do" domination.
My own stratospheric libertarian ideals are also non-functional in all societies except possibly the ultra-disciplined, very orderly Japanese one. That society does successfully practice some socialism and might be able to successfully practice communism.
They are 'experts' in the same way Chelsea Clinton and Hunter Biden are.
And a particular college drop out is an expert on viruses.
Harsh…but fair
The problem is which "facts" are checked? Are the false ones the checkers like bypassed?
Probably, at least in filtering them to their own bigoted slants.
"China has called on the US to release the details of the Pentagon’s biological research programs in Ukraine. “The United States, as the party that knows the laboratories best, should release relevant specific information as soon as possible, including what viruses are stored and the research that has been carried out,” said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian."
Surely Peter Daszak can rustle up a report as forthcoming as the Wuhan one.
Speaking of, why isn't Daszak stripped of his credentials and on trial for lying to Congress?
Didn't Brennan & Clapper make lying to Congress a stepping stone to MSM expert status?
Yes they did. All because nobody in a position of power has the will or capacity to can failures. Lincoln did it during the civil war. One can list over a dozen military officers of various ranks who were demoted or outright canned for their failures. Now, not only are the left off the hook, but are allowed to go and make fortunes in civilian life>
They need to be sacked and subject to gag orders.
"And then we'll compare that to our files" went unsaid ;)
And they should allow "international inspectors". Is Hans Blix available?
Never a lie from the Chinese. Source?
Having a background in the biological sciences, and a degree in nursing as well, I do know that there are biological labs in many countries and even countries that are not secure, and that poses a significant problem. If something happens, an accident, since I don't think the Russians would intentionally target these labs, we have a a very big problem. I never said the Chinese do not lie, but in this instance it's the truth and I think there are some 30 labs there. The most corrupt nation in Europe has 30 labs and I wonder why in God's name we are funding them.
It is too soon to say it is true. Ukraine had the highest concentration of scientific workers in the USSR. I wonder, how many of these labs were in place back then and have remained. Also biological labs are not the same as bio-warfare labs. Every developed country and many developing countries have biolabs. All will be revealed with time.
" Also biological labs are not the same as bio-warfare labs"
Of course, and bullets are not for killing people either.
"All will be revealed with time."
You keep saying that.
So like Kennedy and Roswell then? So reassuring!
You seem to have the narrow world view as a cultist. I meant like WMDs, the Iraqi Al-Quaeda alliance, the back story behind the the overthrow of Allende, The Pentagon Papers, The Panama Papers, My Lai, Russiagate, The Contra War, the death of Che Guevara, the murder of Polish troops at Katyn, The famine in Ukraine in the 193Os, etc, etc, etc,. And maybe one day Roswell and the JFK assassination too.
If the Chinese had said "Russia has million biolabs hidden up in Kopek's ass". You would have never asked for a source would you?
Because everyone knows Russia has biolabs. Have you heard of Novichok? You are stupid.
Novichok?
That's a CHEMICAL weapon.
What was that you were saying about "stupid"?
Where are the Skripals?
I know an awful lot about Novichok.
You? Nothing, as you just proved.
"Everyone knows", are fucking serious? That's what you consider evidence? Or is it a proof in your mind?
Oh but you admit then that Novichok is Russian and has been used as an assasination tool. That, Owen, is a huge acknowledgment for a tool like you..
In the end, I am 99.99% sure that among the world's shadow biolabs, that 'scientists' from the US, EU, Russia and China are all working together in at least one of them.
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/09/chris-hedges-worthy-unworthy-victims/
They could set a good example.
At this point the most radical conspiracy theories are merely very early spoilers.
We cannot believe anything our governments tell us, and it is now very plain that we should not, as they are demonstrable liars. My personal policy is that, if they should tell me the sun in shining, I will check the nearest window. We're long past Reagan's "Trust but Verify!" now, and deep into "Never Believe Anything Until It Is Officially Denied" territory.
Thinking on it, I've come to the conclusion that the weather roundup is actually designed for this purpose:
But 'tis strange:
And oftentimes, to win us to our harm,
The instruments of darkness tell us truths,
Win us with honest trifles, to betray's
In deepest consequence.
---some bard
I used to think that boy who cried wolf was an accurate representation of human psychology. I was wrong. Because power can indeed cry "wolf" over and over again, and the peasants will clutch at their "guns and bibles".
Maybe the boy's mistake was not making it a 'new' threat each time.
"the _______ are coming!"
WHAT!!! KILL THEM ALL!
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." - buhs
Evolving like TheScience ™
More like devolving.
Apparently, the US has 336 biolabs in 30 countries.
Some fun facts from “The Project for a New American Century and the Age of Bioweapons: 20 Years of Psychological Terror”:
“This anthrax attack led quickly into the 2004 Bioshield Act with a $5 billion budget and mandate to “pre-empt and defend further bioweapon attacks”. This new chapter of the revolution in military affairs was to be coordinated from leading bioweapons facility at the Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick. Since 2002, over $50 billion has been spent on Bioweapons research and defense to date.
The earlier October 2000 RAD document emphasized the importance which the neocon cabal placed on bioweapons (and other next generation war tech) stating: “Combat will likely take place in new dimensions: In space, cyber-space and perhaps the world of microbes… advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.”
https://canadianpatriot.org/2020/04/11/the-project-for-a-new-american-century-and-the-age-of-bioweapons-20-years-of-psychological-terror/
Excellent reference, great concise summary of the timeline, thanks! Whitney Webb has a collection of deep dives into the NeoCons and programs mentioned for folks who want more her Engineering Contagion series delivers big time. https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/category/engineering-contagion-amerithrax/
Yes!
And I love Whitney Webb. The article I cited mentions her work later on in the piece too.
I’ve followed her stuff for a while.
Explains the Chinese interest in US genbanks.
There is always a potential danger from these labs and not just in Ukraine, but they are all over the place, and in countries that are not stable. I never understood that. I don't understand why the US would be funding the labs in Ukraine especially since it sees Russia as such a potential threat, and knows the possibility of them becoming a potential biological threat.
Cause we won't let them do it here. Which should sort of be a clue that maybe we shouldn't be doing it anywhere, but what the heck do I know?
the US funds them there because they are illegal here and because we don´t want to be downwind of an accidental loss of containment.
They are very intent on skipping the part where crimes against humanity committed by thousands of bureaucrats internationally are punished. Very intent.
So, the MSM has moved quickly to cover Nuland's ass (and that *has* to be a challenge of scope) with this horseshit:
EXCLUSIVE WHO says it advised Ukraine to destroy pathogens in health labs to prevent disease spread:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-who-says-it-advised-ukraine-destroy-pathogens-health-labs-prevent-2022-03-11/
Which strongly suggests to me that WHO has known of the US biowarfare labs in the Ukraine for quite some time. I guess I shouldn't be terribly surprised at the breadth of the US/Globalist Deep State shennanigans, but I try very hard not to conjure up conspiracy theories where there is a simpler explanation. In this case, I cannot think of one.
"The WHO would not say when it had made the recommendation nor did it provide specifics about the kinds of pathogens or toxins housed in Ukraine's laboratories. The agency also did not answer questions about whether its recommendations were followed."
-------
I agree this suggests the WHO has known about the labs, but disagree that covers Nuland's ass at all.
When I wrote "moved to" I thought a reader would assume it was an attempt. I probably should have been more specific. To completely cover Nuland's ass would take a huge tarpaulin (virtual or literal) indeed...
Yes, my first reaction was another headline:
"WHO admits their hands are also dirty."
They only exist if their existence poses either an embarrassment or threat to the swamp rats' power.
It’s hard to believe what’s true. Russia used the labs as propaganda to say we worked with Ukraine developing dangerous chemical weapons. For 2 weeks that’s a lie. Now, much like they did to trump up the Iraq war, we claim that these dangerous labs exist, and if Putin got it’s hand on them it could have dire consequences. It’s like a light bulb went off, we can use scare tactics to get the public behind our bullshit war. I mean you’d think it would be a hard sell to convince Americans some dispute over a piece of territory in Eastern Europe would have any effect on Americans.
No body forgot Vietnam. There was no plebiscite on Vietnam, or Iraq, or Afghanistan. As for you Chinese professor, the Uighers aren’t Han Chines. Neither are the Tibetans. Or the Vietnamese. Doesn’t that mean China is also indulging in racist wars. You have bought into a line of thought that the West is the most evil empire in the planet. While the West has a brutal history, it affords its citizens a degree of liberty and freedom that is the marvel of the world. Is it perfect, don’t be stupid. If I’m lying move to Cuba, Russia, China, Uzbekistan, Myanmar……
Interesting takes...though both are faulty. To claim that skin color is the reason for Vietnam is beyond absurd. Do you honestly think that if Yugoslavia had revolted during the Cold War that the US would not have intervened? And 3.5 million? I've looked at the higher end numbers and have not come within 2.5 million of that...and the figure of 1 million is death from all causes. My father is a Vietnam vet, he's told me since my teens of what went on there, and, among other tings, that the VC were treated the worst by the South Koreans. It makes sense, they suffered an invasion 15 years prior to my father's deployment and had no use for such rabble.
Ukraine strikes a chord because of Russiagate and the legacy press. You know, the same legacy press that claim Ukraine is a democratic country.
On the other hand, no referendums were allowed in any of those countries because of power. Additionally, referendums in Iraq would have split it into three warring factions, the Kurds, the Sunni Arabs and the Shia Arabs. Afghanistan would have been similar given it's large Tajik minority. The sad truth is that nobody in power cares about their wishes, along with the Tibetans and Uighurs. Ironically, in the past 100 years, Chinese have increased their percentage of the population of Sinking from 2% to 45% through colonization, much like Stalin did with Ukraine and Kazakhstan, flooding them with Russians.
The west has caused it's share of tragedies which need to be acknowledged, however they need to be acknowledged in the context of humanity. People can be brutal, period. They also need to be acknowledged without attempts at self-loathing by painting everything in the lens of race.
I do not condone or defend the imperial or colonial actions of any nation. Every nation, in my opinion, regardless of the dominant ideology is within their rights to liberate their nation from foreign occupation. That includes the Vietnamese, the Afghans, Polisario, the Timorese, the Ukrainians, etc. Of course things aren’t always that simple. The Vietnamese ouster of the PolPot regime might an instance where the issue presents as gray.
First compared to the East and North, Ukraine was and is a democratic government. It became more democratic after 2014 when the old Party-boss/oligarch model was pretty much wiped out. You forget that Russia too was a brief democracy before Putin eliminated any viable opposition..
You've got me mixed up with some else buddy. Show me where I claim skin color had anything to do with Vietnam?
I was replying to Hoffman and you, with the reference to you being in my last two paragraphs.
You nonetheless implied there was validity to that figure. It's much like people who point to the USSR having murdered 'over 65 million' people. It's a distorted figure but it's used for useful idiots, much as figures of 'under 20 million' are (as even Khrushchev admitted the 20 million figure, and he had to walk a careful line not to make Stalin out to be too much of a villain or else loose credibility for himself). Furthermore the 1 million figure involves all fatalities from all sides put together, including the post-war red terror. I used that figure to show simply how absurd the one you cite is. The truth itself is horrendous enough, there is no need to inflate figures to fit a specific narrative, if anything that causes damage by delegitimizing what really happened. Look at the people who claim that Stalin's man-made famine in Ukraine killed 20 million in Ukraine, or even 10 million in Ukraine. Avoiding both that rot and the 'Stalin wasnt that bad' rot, you have 10 million dead in Ukraine, Kazakhstan, the north Caucasus and south Belarus combined. It's the same kind of delegitimization of the truth for personal aims and causes the same damage.
You mention proof, what proof do you have that there was a deliberate campaign to exterminate the Vietnamese? You speak of genocide yet all you have is your opinion on the internet no less. If you seek to claim that an author's book is the proof, that falls far short of the extraordinary evidence to back your extraordinary claims. I could site RFK Jr. as 'proof' that 'vaccines cause autism.' I know that, 9/11 being an inside job and the 'brither' claims are all BS but still. John Kerry got famous by making similar accusations and that's the only reason he got anywhere in politics, well that and marrying into money. What is there to make you think that McNamara isn't doing the same thing, trying to both remain relevant long after the conflict ceased and make money?
As for my father, he was stationed in 1968 in Tai Ninh or "rocket city in rocket alley" and worked retrograde. He saw, as he put it, how the human body worked without the skin covering it and had US troops die in his arms during large-scale mortar and rocket assaults and has difficulty watching any kind of medical show on TV or gory war movie as a result, even knowing that reenactments and special effects are fake. He spoke of how VC POWs always were beaten to a pulp by the South Koreans, something which makes sense as it was then only 15 years previous that the communist-sponsored invasion of South Korea ended and the South Koreans had no use for such rot. They should have directed the entire conflict.
You mention vets not wanting to have anything to do with you. I wonder why. You make unsupported claims based on no evidence I am aware of other than a few books, nothing of which can be corroborated. You also make claims about what people told you, yet what is there other than your account that any of it happened? Were their statements collected and verified? If so, where and how many people did you collect statements from? Were they from troop deployments in one place, one base, or scattered throughout the entire countryside and on US naval vessels? If they were scattered, were they collated proportionally to the troop numbers? Also, what years are you speaking of? You have a lot of holes to fill in if one is to even begin to believe an ounce of truth in what you say, and if you choose not to elaborate further, I honestly don't blame the majority of the Vietnam Vets for not wanting to associate with you. However, if you do have evidence beyond your mere personal POV and books without any confirmation, by all means, present it.
I do believe that your post is a case of self loathing due to the racial component, as it shares a lot of similarities with the garbage being spouted from the fountain of sewage called CRT. I am well aware of the racism that was within the US army during the late 60s and undoubtedly 70s as well, my father told me about it from a young age, whether from an officer who repeatedly mocked people of African descent when constantly beating them in checkers (he also said he watched how the guy played, and after awhile, crushed him, then trolled him). I was also told about a black draftee who had a football scholarship take shrapnel to the neck to knock down a white supremacist when he froze during incoming rounds...and the bastard never thanked him. Waste of two lives, one in the garbage who had his life saved yet could care less, the other in the unrealized potential of the true man who made the sacrifice all soldiers are trained to do and as a result, lost a shot at a well paying career. He also mentioned race based bar fights, chiefly in Basic, but also some overseas.
I hope that your master's are kind.
There is no Western atrocity that this one will not try to whitewash.
For good reason, too. Western atrocities get aired, Western societies learn and correct, Western Peoples progress (REAL progress, not the "progress" of Progressives).
The danger to humanity remains the same always: Fascists who go international.
Not Western Civilization.
Hey, you can always tale some Soma to slow it down...I think thats expected...
Call me a conspiracy nut but I'm starting to see a trend
Nuland (and Biden’s) role in the 2014 Ukrainian documented well here:
https://spaceworms.substack.com/p/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine?s=r
Obama, Joe Biden, George Soros, John Brennan, John Kerry, Victoria Nuland, John McCain were ALL involved in the CIA Coup in Ukraine of 2014. It was the US (not Russia) who INVADED Ukraine - the US invaded Ukraine in 2014 - with that Coup.
I wrote an article on that Coup, back in January: https://gregrubini.substack.com/p/massacre-ukraine-2014
100 innocent people were massacred in the main square of Kiev, by Snipers hired by OUR CIA. (by Eric Ciaramella, to be specific, under Brennan orders).
The Military-Industrial Complex and the CIA/NSA/NRO always need Wars, to sell weapons and to make $$$ Billions. No Wars = No money. To make Wars, they also need to manufacture Enemies, in the eyes of the gullible sheeple. The CIA controls all the TV Networks, and all the major newpapers, in the US and in Europe. The CIA Propaganda Machine.
It's wonderful and after reading I tried to add you as a paid subscription to my long list and it popped up a notice that said my card didn't support "this type of transaction".. Substack then happily added a different writer to my list with the one tick of a box so Substack has no problem w the card. If it happened to me there must be others too so check it out... support is too hard to accumulate to have more tech against you. :~)
Thank you, Pamela! - and thank you for letting me know. I will contact Substack support: it is the 2nd time in 3 days someone tells me this. May be some CIA mole at Substack or at Stripe doing the boycotting (they are everywhere).
This is not new: in Sept 2020, Amazon suppressed 2 of my 4 books. That happened 50 days before the elections. So I know I was over the target: I know who are the masterminds of the operation.
Thank you again, Pamela! - I will contact you by email
“CIA Mole” 😂😂😂😂. That’s hilarious.
CIA has a long history of media infiltration. Hearts and minds and all that. Is substack infiltrated? Have they been targeted?
Almost certainly.
As much as I wish I could say I think you are wrong, I fully agree.
?
The only people in the West who believe the Maidan was a US coup have been reduced to either cultists of the left or the right, and Oliver Stone.. The name Nuland is their dog whistle and whenever her name is mentioned, the howling starts. Note many of the comments. Nuland was nothing more than a mid-level functionary, she was in Kyiv in 2014 because Kyiv was a State Department backwater. Look it up. Elevating her to the level of a political svengali and point person for US global expansion is a comedy, it is absurd on the face of it. On the other hand, objective histories of the Maidan are available. The unwillingness of some people to read more broadly is inexcusable. Venues like this, seem to allow proponents of these views to imagine themselves to be part of a powerful and growing consensus. They are wrong. Since the Maidan , millions of young Europeans travelled to Ukraine, it was cheap and fun, they did not find a country run by fascists. Instead, they found a country struggling to free itself from the lethargy and brutality of Putin’s Russia. The small circle of pro-Russian, pro-LPR/DRP, Putin supporters and apologists is shrinking by the day. Thank heavens there will always be venues like this for people like Greg Rubini. By the way, Greg, Hitler started WWII. You are a complete and utter idiots.
The idea that Victoria Nuland is just some poor, misunderstood functionary is laugh-out-loud ridiculous...
Watch her testimony - she is a hack. If she impresses you with her grasp of things instead of just mouthing back standard policy, you are naive.
Insulting everyone who disagrees with you just makes you look like an imbecile...
Coming from you it means something.
Nuland is a Deep State tool, a functionary sure, but a beloved and trusted one who is sometimes allocated extraordinary power.
She is a poodle.
There is far more evidence to hand then just her "testimony"
Selective evidence is no evidence at all.
We've been through this before, and you keep trying to argue from shame and emotion. It's a habit with you.
That said, "undersecretary of state" is hardly some "midlevel functionary". Among other things, it's a presidential appointment.
For that matter, Zbigniew Brzezinski pointed out about Ukraine being key to undermining Russia. It's not "some backwater". For that matter, what kind of wack Senate Committee asks flunkies and "midlevel functionaries" to testify? And it's not the first time. Why, it's almost as if this midlevel functionary in some backwater is of some importance in the halls of power!
I am willing to believe that these labs may in fact be benign, but what we have been told so far just raises questions.
Relative to US interests in Russia, Ukraine has always been a backwater, Zbig B has been irrelevant in US policy since the days of Carter. He was washed up under Reagan. As for Nuland, her testimony before Rubio's committee demonstrates what a mediocrity she is. I'm no face of Russia but I acknowledge, Nuland probably couldn't cut it in Lavrov's Foreign ministry. If you are incapable of em option in the face of war, you may be a nihilist. Watch out Finster.
A cursory search of the career of Zbigniew Brzezinski would indicate something very different than what you claim.
For that matter, so would a google search of the words "Zbigniew Brzezinski influence".
Then again, since these allegations are coming from the person who claims that Nuland was a "midlevel functionary" and that we are engaged in brinksmanship potentially leading to WWIII over a backwater of no strategic importance, which leads me to conclude that you are making shit up.
Again.
Zbig B. was always a Kissinger wannabe. If and administration couldn’t get Kissinger, Zbig was the go to. He is a mediocrity which reinforces my earlier point, that there is more conformity that brains running US foreign policy. Ukraine was a backwater and Nuland was a mid-level apparachik.
Why would you be willing to believe that? Even if (huge if) the nominal and advertised purpose of the labs was to research defensive measures against bioterrorism, you don't think it's a slam dunk that assholes in the CIA and other natsec orgs were waiting with bated breath to leverage any and all developments for offensive purposes? And you don't think that perversion of function would have been a strong motivation by at least some high-level functionaries in those orgs for the creation of those labs in the first place?
Because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Trite but true. But that's just my problem with your willingness to believe. To me, the claim that these labs are benign is the more extraordinary. The US installed the current government of Ukraine, making it little more than a US proxy state. Why would the US then establish, help to establish, or even allow the establishment of, biological warfare labs that have the sole purpose of identifying defenses to bio attacks there? Do you seriously think it likely that the Ukraine regime undertook to establish these labs entirely on their own initiative? The crucial question to me is, if the labs are benign, why did the US NatSec apparatus think it necessary that they be located in Eastern Europe, instead of, say, in Betheda, Maryland? On the other hand, if the purpose of the labs is to research very dangerous biological agents for use by the US and allies in attacking opposing forces, locating those labs in a place with a population that US NatSec considers to be expendable, and that is relatively near to a theater where such agents might plausibly be deployed in the near future, makes a great deal of sense.
I think the US would be willing to use Ukraine for off the books research? Yes. This will all get sorted out sooner or later. My Amin point here is that Nuland is a tool, and not a bright one.
Make one admission so you can tell two lies.
We see you.
>> Nuland was nothing more than a mid-level functionary
You must've not read to the end of the article.
Are you also denying the phone call between her and the ambassador?
At some point the denials become laughable.
Ukraine was a backwater. Nuland was a martinet. Trump called out the state department functionaries as dim bulbs. Was he wrong, he was describing Nuland. Its funny a lot of people on the left and now the right like to insinuate that the DEEP State s filled with hacks, sycophants and idiots. And then hen these same people want to blame for US for nefarious acts, these same idiots become James Bond. Be real. You are defending Nuland's competence.
Do you not agree that the US Congress is filled with hacks? Do you not agree that those hacks leverage their power to do real damage? How is that argument different from the one you have posited and dismissed out of hand?
I agree with you about the political class. I agree that they can be/are cynical and dangerous. I’ll go further and say that the media, academia and the cultural elites are largely complicit. What I can not agree to is that a narrow spectrum of opinion, that runs counter to the dominant narrative, is by itself, always correct or true. The negation of a lie is not a proof of the truth. Lies can also, seemingly, be negated by other lies. We live in an age and a country when there is an overload of information. Anyone can find a point of view that corresponds to their own and one that is also supported by a limited group of like-minded thinkers. I have come to believe that the truth is elusive and that there is no select group of people who have a monopoly over it. Everything shred of news should be balanced against all other information. Knowledge is a process of synthesis, not memorization. A broad understanding of history helps. I struggle to find the truth like everyone else. But when people can not even agree on the basic facts or chronologies of a thing, what is the point of discourse?
Now we can debate. Thanks for the opportunity.
It does indeed seem that the Deep state is filled with dimwits. Or the stupidest smart people. Mostly hardened ideologues.
The sad part is that these people do have all the power. And they use it. And that's why we are where we are. They are extremely afraid to lose the face. That's why the thought of openly admitting Ukraine will never be a NATO member is impossible for them.
I'm pointing out Nuland's incompetence...
Ukraine will join NATO when Russia becomes a democratic nations of laws. As long as a narrow military clique rules the Kremlin, the Russian people will have no input into the foreign or domestic policies of their nation. What is happening in Ukraine is not a war between the Russian and Ukrainian people, it is a result of the world view and paranoia of a single man and his retinue of yes men. Ukrainians and Russians have lived side by side, intermarried for years. This war has broken something that was very deep. Among Russians that know what is going on, this was war has brought a deep sense of shame. Sadly, the Russian people will now learn the true cost of unaccountable leadership.
What about Nuland's phone call to Jeffery Pyatt in which they discuss who should be Ukraine's next president? How do you work that into your narrative that this was not a US backed coup? Yes there were many in Ukraine who wanted to oust the elected president, but they were assisted by the US that wanted to oust a pro-Russian government, so they could install someone who would bow to our anti-Russia agenda. Biden calls for the IMF to let money flow into the Ukraine after the coup and somehow it flows back out, but through his son he caught some of it, and who knows how much more. Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe and the 9th most corrupt country in the world. Your denial of the degree of fascism in Ukraine is very disingenuous since they have already infiltrated the military. It is the main reason some 14, thousand have died in the Donbas, many of whom were of Russian ethnicity. Or answer the question why have statues of Bandera been erected in western Ukraine? By the way, don't underestimate neocons like Nuland, especially since her husband Kagan is one of the most, if not the most influential of neocons, and runs the Brooking's institute.
Fran, have you ever heard of Holodomor.? Have you ever read Solzhenitsyn? Have you ever heard of Nemtsov? Politskaya? The Chechen Wars? There is context to everything. You provide nothing, a slew of one line statements, none substantiated. I could start to take each of you comments on one at a time. I am going to wait until all the proPtiun trolls have finished and I’ll write an answer it once. A piece of advice, if everything you read comes from a narrow spectrum of sources, you might not grasp the complexity of certain issues. In fact you may not even grasp the true facts. Your paragra
You think you are the only person who ever has heard of such things?
Whatever - explain how the Holodomor makes Nuland's telephone call to Jeffrey Pyatt disappear. Otherwise, you're just trying to change the subject.
Again.
The history of Russia and Ukraine does not begin with Victoria Nuland, it doesn’t end there either. The suppression of Ukrainian national aspirations by the Tsars, the USSR and Russia is a long tale. Your comments concerning the Ukrainians at Maidan do not recognize agency among Ukrainians. It is demeaning and arrogant. It is also light on context. Yanukovych was neither loved, nor liked nor admired by the Ukrainian people. He was a tool of oligarchs in Donetsk, a tough guy. A Soviet-style man, who won the Presidency by virtual default after years of incompetence and corruption by his predecessors. The Maidan revolt lasted 100 days. It began with student demonstrators who were beaten mercilessly by the militia. This created general revulsion across Ukraine and increasingly radicalized the population against the regime. Over time, brutal police tactics were met by street fighting units filled by former soldiers and young radicalized men. As the sides hardened, Russian paramilitary and intelligence resources were introduced to strengthen Yanukovych regime’s resolve. It ended with militia troops firing on unarmed demonstrators, killing about 100. These facts are accepted by almost everyone except the Kremlin and a small minority here in the west who discern the dark hand of the CIA everywhere. The Maidan was not the overthrow of Arbenz, Mossedegh or Allende. The closest recent analogy might be the Tahir Square uprising that toppled Mubarak. The west, in this case Nuland, had to step in, very late, to assure they would blunt the radicalized demands of the Ukrainian street. If Nuland or Obama had wanted to really upset relations with Moscow, they would have armed Ukraine. Remember Obama’ s reset. Victoria Nuland is no hero in Ukraine. Their interests are not hers and her interests are not theirs. The experts at State and the CIA expected the Ukraine to fold in three days. Biden did not want to exclude Russia from swift. He did not want to ban Russian oil sales. He is being dragged into this by the actions of Putin and the revulsion and fear it has generated in Europe. The US has never given a shit about Ukraine..
It was a pretty good, if completely transparent attempt at deflection. Did. not. work. lol