Imprisoned without charges for fourteen years in Guantánamo, Mohamedou Slahi is a symbol of humans' impulse to abuse power and their capacity for redemption.
As a conservative, I now have to self-censor quite a bit. And I recall having to keep my mouth shut when the "Patriot" act was passed those many years ago. Same as it ever was, I guess.
While I frequently state the US has done more good for more people in more countries for a longer period of time than any country in history, stories like this are part of the awful doings of the US, just like any global power throughout history. I simply cannot fathom how any "system" of a "free" country could behave like this for 14 years. Apart from any legal or constitutional issues, it just is not fair.
At the same time, there seems to be no value for a politician standing on principal, so why bother taking the "right" stance when it will only cost you?
They got away with it because media propaganda works. When bush was bombing and they realized people weren’t accepting, they put forward Obama who “hypnotized” everyone, got a novel peace prize amd couldn’t be criticized without being called racist. Everyone went to sleep while Obomber bombed and did the same thing as bush. Then everyone voted out “Hitler” by voting in the senile old man who got endorsed by bush and obomber. Unity and healing!
I want to move to US (immigrant in Canada currently) because I love the US constitution and think there’s need for more people who uphold it. I hate the politicians on both sides. The constitution is worth saving and right now it’s been used as toilet paper.
The most important way to self censor is to speak only from principles....that way only an obvious cad can attack what you say!! Every subject can be addressed that way....no politics, no country, no persons, none of that.....actions described and comment from principles such as justice, honesty, business ethics, compassion, etc.
Immigrant in Canada here who wants to move to US eventually. I am in the same boat as you. I hate identity politics and consider the democrat politicians to be the party of evil and republicans politicians to be the party of incompetent cucks.
For sure. It's a uniparty when it comes to military industrial complex and not helping Americans. I just consider Democrat party to be more evil because Democrats use identity politics as a way to hide their evil. Republicans just bomb the brown kids. Democrats bomb them in the name of "unity and healing" and "building back better". And when they do, people are so hypnotized by a black president that they cannot see no evil.
Well, it looks like the Dems are canceling Lincoln, so I suppose Reps should reclaim the founder of the Reps, but the Dems will just say, "Racist! Racist! See! See!"
'President Obama — who so flamboyantly campaigned in 2008 on the promise to close the camp — instead had his Justice Department appeal the ruling in Slahi’s favor in order to keep him encaged. ' The same man who got a Nobel Peace Prize imprisoning a man who - by all accounts - sounds like the embodiment of peace.
They got away with it because media propaganda works. When bush was bombing and they realized people weren’t accepting, they put forward Obama who “hypnotized” everyone, got a novel peace prize amd couldn’t be criticized without being called racist. Everyone went to sleep while Obomber bombed and did the same thing as bush. Then everyone voted out “Hitler” by voting in the senile old man who got endorsed by bush and obomber. Unity and healing!
Power over the powerless is so intoxicating to those who govern. Unfortunately the partisan divide is so deep even the most common sense efforts to rein in government is seen as unnecessary by whatever party is in power. The illusion we are free continues as we give away our rights little by little to those giddy with power. All is good until they come for me. By then it is too late.
"It cannot be disputed that limitless power was placed in the hands of the U.S. Government to imprison, to monitor, to surveil, to kidnap and to kill anyone it wanted, anywhere in the world, with no checks." - Glenn Greenwald
All that and more: the Global War on Terror also gave the POTUS the power to wage endless war. Since 2001, the U.S. & its allies have dropped at least 325,890 bombs - that's an average of 46 bombs and missiles EVERY SINGLE DAY for almost 20 years. Millions have died, many millions have been injured or maimed, and still millions more have become refugees fleeing the relentless barrage. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/56405.htm. The GWOT has made the world more dangerous for us all.
Don't ever forget that Obama killed by drone two American citizens who were NEVER indicted or even charged with a crime. One was a 16 year old son of the other. Not a peep from the left or right about these murders. Yet when a foreign gov't kills one of their own citizens who is against the current gov't. and is in another country (Turkey) suddenly the US gets all worked up. Even though that journalist seemed to support the 911 attacks or was at least silent about them. Selective outrage seems to be the order of the day. War of Terror knows NO bounds or has any actual rules unlike State waged wars against other States. Why?
Why? My theory is primarily twofold. First, the WoT provides the west with a continuous supply of veteran troops and supplying the same to a legitimately threatening nation. It is difficult to overstate the advantage this would provide in a large scale engagement.
Second, it focuses and habituates the more violent elements of society toward the State's chosen agents. It invests the kind of men who might fight against tyranny in the tyranny itself. Imagine how difficult it would be to accept that you have killed and subjugated for an evil regime, and then fight against it.
Secondary effects like public fear mongering, economic stimulus, etc. are just gravy on the biscuit.
OT but maybe Glenn will be pleased to hear that we just adopted a rescue dog. He comes from Alabama and was transported to the shelter in Boston where I volunteer. I met him first on Tuesday and took him home on Friday. He, now named Rocco, and Lucy, our 3-year old rescue, are getting along great, as you see https://i.imgur.com/kj5lp1X.jpeg
Congratulations. I love dogs. Not that many years ago I had 5, 2 were old foundlings off the street who lived to 16 and 17 according to the vet. Dogs live longer when they have other dogs for company, just like people. My neighbor told me only white trash has so many dogs, so I bought a tee shirt that said you couldn't have too many dogs, and told him I would fill in his picture of me by no longer having my lawn mowed, and maybe I would let the car in my driveway grow old and rust, and leave it there. They're all gone, and now only 2. I've been thinking about another one.
I took in a stray border collie and she had puppies....we kept 5, placing one. They all lived long lives and behind me are 3 who are 13 and just got a clean bill of health. You are absolutely right....pack animals like dogs and guinea pigs should always have companions. I told my vet they should prescribe it and give discounts to encourage it.
The vets here make you call from the car and turn your pet over to an assistant....it is getting a little folksy with people chatting outside, etc. But I plan on bringing this up again when it's possible. Thanks!
He was older then us, and he developed alzheimer's, and became really nice, and always wanted to take my dogs for walks, and play with them, but of course I didn't let him take them for walks. Strange.
The authorities were given extraordinary powers to do the "right thing" and they did the wrong thing. The powers were supposed to be temporary but became permanent. The processes are not transparent, the deep state uses secret courts for legal cover and leaks fake documents to corporate media to build fake narratives. Giving them the power to detain foreigners was a mistake, it seems the powers cannot be taken away now and are being turned against Americans.
Much earlier. History repeats itself every 60-100 years and the survivors say "never again" every time. Obviously warnings have not been efficient though. Raising children and studying History with them might have helped.
Read Searching for the enemy by Bette Dam, about what USA did in Afghanistan after 9/11. You will find Rumsfelt again as the the impersonification of the stupidity of what USA mostly is.
The first war on terror was horrific and took up my earliest years of life. The second is happening in my early adulthood. Must be fought, but first, called out.
On 9/11, my wife was 4 months pregnant with my first child. Can you imagine our horror at what was done to us, you and me? We didn't know what the future held in store.
I, and my family, WILL fight Authoritarian Socialism (the police State), but I will fight separately from you, unless I hear an expression of righteous indignation also at what was done to US on 9/11.
Oh I understand. 9/11 was a horrifying experience for many people. It killed thousands and destroyed the most famous, popular buildings in the Americas. I understand that many embraced the war on terror out of fear. In some ways, it may be justified and I mean no blame on you.
You can fight separately from me or with me. Either way, we should be on the same side.
I don’t know which side I fall on on that. I was too young at that time. What I do wonder is whether the opinion has changed now vs what it used to be back then when things happened? It’s much easier for us to say something was or wasn’t justified after things have already played out.
Same as Assad and how can we forget Gaddafi. Gaddafi was no angel but at least he didn't allow slaves. Thanks to the regime change, now we have slavery back in Libya.
When you're so abused, as he was, your only option is to attain acceptance, or in his case, forgiveness. It is the only way to take back your life rather then allow the abuse to destroy and consume it with rage and revenge. He's fortunately an articulate man who has been able to use what happened to him to write a book, now a movie, and that's a great way to get back at your abusers, articulate what happened to you, a kind of therapy, and let the world acknowledge the injustice of what America did to you and what it continues to do to others. I would love to see the movie, and I can see it at home. I wanted those who were culpable punished, but never had a hawkish view on finding those who were responsible, and I hope many on this site didn't feel our many criminal abuses in pursuing those responsible was acceptable, or would want it repeated. I think most wouldn't. I didn't want them to kill osama bin Laden, and wanted to here his side of the story.
Yes! The people needed to see and hear OBL, before he was sentenced. The State does not trust us. OBLs will keep coming (blowback) until the State is made to trust US.
When 9/11 happened I was working in Queens, but family were in Manhattan. Scary, but a lot of questions afterwards. I try not to get into conspiracy theories, but it was shocking that some 19 hijackers could abscond with four of our planes bound for different places, and except for the one that crashed in PA the others hit their targets. Wow, does our security system suck. I hate providing excuses for their despicable behavior after 9/11, but maybe they were over compensating for their total ineptitude in terms of providing security, and sending a message to the world, mess with us again, and things will only get worse. Do I believe that? I don't know. I don't know if you are familiar with the Project for a New American Century, but it certainly wanted to take down countries in the Middle East, which we did, and before 9/11 they stated all we need is another Pearl Harbor and we can do it. They certainly used 9/11 to carry through the neocon agenda. You've heard of Kristol and Kagan, now talking heads for the democrats.
Well before Pearl Harbor FDR was poking and prodding the Japanese in the Pacific and hoping they would hit back so he could join Churchill in drawing a rabidly isolationist America into another World War. He got way more then he ever expected. Pearl Harbor was that prod on steroids. FDR never dreamed that such a massive attack would ever happen. He had his "Remember The Maine" moment. But like many politicians he did not let a crises go to waste and America marched off to war without any further cheerleading or excuses. Probably was the necessary thing to do in the end but the means was way too cynical by half. After all they tell us it was for our own good. Tell that to the individuals entombed in those sunken hulks at Pearl Harbor.
The Russians really won that war, and was it necessary for us to be there, well, I just don't know, but our liberty ships got a lot of ammo to them. Of course it was quite unnecessary, well a horror, for Truman to drop those atomic bombs on Japan, and all of this was followed by more death and destruction in the following 60 years, often on a covert level in South America, in Indonesia, including the middle east, and of course there was Vietnam. I don't think people realize who we really are, and I'm not talking about the people, but the government. I was so happy, no war in the last 4 years, but now what?
Without a two front war Hitler would have walked over Russia. Russia did not have to contend with Japan either and did not declare war on them until the very end. Russia did suffer terrible casualties because they were poorly trained and equipped. In any event WW II was a joint effort against some very powerful nations intent on ruling large segments of the world. Without allies we would have been in deep sh*t. And yes our Policeman of the World role has resulted in some horrible decisions by our elected officials. The fear of Communism was rational but our policies at times were irrational and unwarranted. Fear can do that to people and nations.
I won't argue your position about WWII, and the necessity for us to be in that war, and as far as the Russian death toll is concerned I'm no expert on that, but the war was also fought on their soil and certainly one reason for the high death toll. I don't agree that our fear of communism is, or was rational, and it has always been used as an excuse to gain greater US dominance in the world.
According to news reports (and Bhutto in an interview with David Frost), OBL died from kidney disease in the fall of 2001. He had Marfan’s Syndrome and was treated many times in several major medical centers, and was visited by a CIA station chief while hospitalized in the summer of 2001.
Interesting how he was on near constant dialysis but yet was able to orchestrate the implosion of 3 major NYC skyscrapers in one day! Plus destroying just one corner of The Pentagon where an audit of two trillion dollars that were “lost” (according to Rumsfeld the day prior) was on-going!
And a stand-down order for the entire eastern US military!
Damn! That OBL, even on his deathbed was some incredible mastermind of destruction! (Cough)
Support for Trump is really a symptom of a deeper problem with American society in general. It is the canary in the coal mine and should be heeded. Those 70 million are not "other." They are Americans who want what we all want. A representative gov't that listens to its' citizens and heeds their concerns.
The cartoonish depiction of them as rednecked, knuckle dragging, toothless morons by too many professional prigs and media elites might just result in the dissolving of the bonds that have always held this nation together. Even if those bonds were an illusion shared by the citizens of this nation. That illusion is in then process of being wiped away and a new paradigm of a domestic "us and them" is replacing it. It is the Balkanization of our nation. Even during the Civil War Americans saw themselves as being involved in a "family dispute" rather than the other side being forever irredeemable. Now we are in dangerous times and should consider what we are about before it is too late. Boundries do not a nation make. The genocidal actions within many nations (Rwanda, Germany & the Balkans) can happen anywhere where people start to believe others are less that human or are enemies of their way of life. Beware and Be Aware.
This is also why I didn’t see a single thing wrong in what Gina Carano tweeted. Media is already treating trump supporters as less than human, talking about re-education camps, AOC tweeting about making lists of trump supporters and getting them fired from their jobs and what not. If they keep poking the bear this way, soon the bear won’t have anything to lose.
Your replay sounds like it's directed at me for disparaging Trump Supporters. I do not do that. My statement about them being sent somewhere was making fun of the view many others in the media hold. And yes, I largely agree with your comment.
Sorry but lately there has been much talk and recommendations in media about "re-educating" and/or punishing Trump supporters. Reacting to that noise rather than you. Again sorry I missed your point.
Events sometimes come full circle, and those who accepted the foreign War on Terror will be the most likely recipients of the domestic and substantially refined version.
And to think. Men and women once braved a brutal and unforgiving frontier for a chance at freedom. Now it has come to this, a nation cowering from an enemy that poses no rational threat to it. One willing to abandon its soul entire to avoid even the slightest chance of harm. And for what? A few more years of deteriorating health and more junk to throw in a storage facility? Embarrassing.
Look forward to watching the movie. I was one of those Americans who was so angry after 9/11 that I roughly fell into the "Time to take the gloves off." camp. Terrible fact patterns like this one suffered by Mr. Slahi indicate that Glenn's civil liberties concerns regarding GWOT (global war on terror) were entirely warranted and that my dismissal of those concerns was wrong. It seems Glenn has been entirely consistent for twenty years; the inconsistency is who constitutes his detractors.
Thanks for the canary in the coal mine.....the prospect of Patriot 2021 is not so much shocking as fatalistic.
History suggests that the US swings to an extreme (think McCarthy or WW2 internment) but we, over time, swing back.
Not so sure this time we will be able to swing back but Mr. Slahi's perspective on forgiveness is inspirational and calming.
DIFFERENT SUBJECT:
Your business and productivity is admirable. However, please keep breaks / vacations in mind. And work to avoid PVBs (post-vacation blues) but having a future trip planned after your conclude your next well-earned break.
How individuals like this man and others like Nelson Mandela endure and retain their humanity and decency is a testament to the power of a good soul vs the darkest impulses of humanity. Even the massive evils of Nazism and abuses of Communism eventually fall and the darkness is pushed back by the dawn. One definition of "God" is --- hope and love. How they endure is a mystery given the forces that conspire to destroy those gifts. A single man like this is a light in the darkness.
if you are abused the only way to save your self, your soul, is to learn to accept what has happened, or forgive, or both, otherwise you only give your abuser more power.
For anyone who hasn't read the book, it is important to realize that Guantanamo itself is full of people who are also quite decent, and who realized at the time that a huge wrong was being done to this man, as well as many others. At least a few of them tried to rectify it, and failed.
Especially in the Larry Siems introduction, you can see how the military deals with anyone who still has some sense of reality -- and how, in the process, it destroys its own competence and ability to function effectively.
I wrote a long piece about this phenomenon many years ago, before Slahi was released, and I think it still holds up, even at this distance.
Glenn I donated to your work with homeless animals and it inspited me to adopt another homeless kitten. The article on Mr Slahi was powerful and what a hero he is. My assistant is ordering 5 copies his book Guantanamo Diaries and my church group and I will wath the video this weekend. One minor suggestion which, if not of value, please toss aside: I would consider adding in your articles the potential that our overreaching government will use legislation 1021 which at one page long, is buried in the NDAA in the counterterrorism section. To my amatuer eye 1021 is the Patriot Act on steroids and could, if implimented be ironically, as dangerous to any American's liberty-including those imlementing it- as it is so inclusive as to make anyone vulnerable to arrest, without charges or habeau Corpus. If it is helpful here is short article about it: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dear-americans-this-law-makes-it-possible-to-arrest_b_57c9b648e4b06c750dd9cd6f . Judge Spring wrote a brilliant opinion in the first Federal court siding with the defendent that the legislation was unconsitutional in Hedge versus Obama. Sadly, soon after, it is my understanding, the DOJ requested a stay arguing no standing for defendent and the case was not accepted at Appeals Court. In my opinion, the legislation 1021 is a serious issue that has the potential to do great harm as few Americans talk about and even less are aware of. Perhaps you could waive in with your expertise as I am hoping I am wrong about the legislation's potential danger to hurt our freedoms in these Orwelian times. Most important keep up the fine work.Thank you, Steve
As a conservative, I now have to self-censor quite a bit. And I recall having to keep my mouth shut when the "Patriot" act was passed those many years ago. Same as it ever was, I guess.
While I frequently state the US has done more good for more people in more countries for a longer period of time than any country in history, stories like this are part of the awful doings of the US, just like any global power throughout history. I simply cannot fathom how any "system" of a "free" country could behave like this for 14 years. Apart from any legal or constitutional issues, it just is not fair.
At the same time, there seems to be no value for a politician standing on principal, so why bother taking the "right" stance when it will only cost you?
Mr. Slahi seems to be an incredible individual.
"Apart from any legal or constitutional issues, it just is not fair."
Correction: "it's just plain evil."
They got away with it because media propaganda works. When bush was bombing and they realized people weren’t accepting, they put forward Obama who “hypnotized” everyone, got a novel peace prize amd couldn’t be criticized without being called racist. Everyone went to sleep while Obomber bombed and did the same thing as bush. Then everyone voted out “Hitler” by voting in the senile old man who got endorsed by bush and obomber. Unity and healing!
All compelling reasons to move to the US.
The "novel" peace prize typo is actually spot-on in his case.
I want to move to US (immigrant in Canada currently) because I love the US constitution and think there’s need for more people who uphold it. I hate the politicians on both sides. The constitution is worth saving and right now it’s been used as toilet paper.
The most important way to self censor is to speak only from principles....that way only an obvious cad can attack what you say!! Every subject can be addressed that way....no politics, no country, no persons, none of that.....actions described and comment from principles such as justice, honesty, business ethics, compassion, etc.
Immigrant in Canada here who wants to move to US eventually. I am in the same boat as you. I hate identity politics and consider the democrat politicians to be the party of evil and republicans politicians to be the party of incompetent cucks.
For sure. It's a uniparty when it comes to military industrial complex and not helping Americans. I just consider Democrat party to be more evil because Democrats use identity politics as a way to hide their evil. Republicans just bomb the brown kids. Democrats bomb them in the name of "unity and healing" and "building back better". And when they do, people are so hypnotized by a black president that they cannot see no evil.
This lifelong Republican (sorry, lesser of two evils for me) certainly learned his middle-age lesson in the aughts.
Well, it looks like the Dems are canceling Lincoln, so I suppose Reps should reclaim the founder of the Reps, but the Dems will just say, "Racist! Racist! See! See!"
'President Obama — who so flamboyantly campaigned in 2008 on the promise to close the camp — instead had his Justice Department appeal the ruling in Slahi’s favor in order to keep him encaged. ' The same man who got a Nobel Peace Prize imprisoning a man who - by all accounts - sounds like the embodiment of peace.
What a farcical world we live in.
I think the term for Obama's Nobel Peace Prize is "aspirational".
They got away with it because media propaganda works. When bush was bombing and they realized people weren’t accepting, they put forward Obama who “hypnotized” everyone, got a novel peace prize amd couldn’t be criticized without being called racist. Everyone went to sleep while Obomber bombed and did the same thing as bush. Then everyone voted out “Hitler” by voting in the senile old man who got endorsed by bush and obomber. Unity and healing!
Well, except the part where he joined a group of asymmetrical warfighters.
It is not the press that hypnotizes you, it is just the Americans who live on the island of their superiority. The press is just a mirror.
Power over the powerless is so intoxicating to those who govern. Unfortunately the partisan divide is so deep even the most common sense efforts to rein in government is seen as unnecessary by whatever party is in power. The illusion we are free continues as we give away our rights little by little to those giddy with power. All is good until they come for me. By then it is too late.
There is no partisan divide when it comes to the duopoly's endless passion for Authoritarianism.
"It cannot be disputed that limitless power was placed in the hands of the U.S. Government to imprison, to monitor, to surveil, to kidnap and to kill anyone it wanted, anywhere in the world, with no checks." - Glenn Greenwald
All that and more: the Global War on Terror also gave the POTUS the power to wage endless war. Since 2001, the U.S. & its allies have dropped at least 325,890 bombs - that's an average of 46 bombs and missiles EVERY SINGLE DAY for almost 20 years. Millions have died, many millions have been injured or maimed, and still millions more have become refugees fleeing the relentless barrage. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/56405.htm. The GWOT has made the world more dangerous for us all.
Don't ever forget that Obama killed by drone two American citizens who were NEVER indicted or even charged with a crime. One was a 16 year old son of the other. Not a peep from the left or right about these murders. Yet when a foreign gov't kills one of their own citizens who is against the current gov't. and is in another country (Turkey) suddenly the US gets all worked up. Even though that journalist seemed to support the 911 attacks or was at least silent about them. Selective outrage seems to be the order of the day. War of Terror knows NO bounds or has any actual rules unlike State waged wars against other States. Why?
Why? My theory is primarily twofold. First, the WoT provides the west with a continuous supply of veteran troops and supplying the same to a legitimately threatening nation. It is difficult to overstate the advantage this would provide in a large scale engagement.
Second, it focuses and habituates the more violent elements of society toward the State's chosen agents. It invests the kind of men who might fight against tyranny in the tyranny itself. Imagine how difficult it would be to accept that you have killed and subjugated for an evil regime, and then fight against it.
Secondary effects like public fear mongering, economic stimulus, etc. are just gravy on the biscuit.
*troops while not supplying
This is why your $50 was the best money I spent all year. Keep it up!
Same. I am more right leaning but I subscribed to GG for quality journalism and criticism of both sides.
I'm starting to feel like I've ripped off GG.
Pass out the 1-month gift subscriptions like they are candy.
"Don't worry, man. The first one's free."
I think that's how I got addicted.
OT but maybe Glenn will be pleased to hear that we just adopted a rescue dog. He comes from Alabama and was transported to the shelter in Boston where I volunteer. I met him first on Tuesday and took him home on Friday. He, now named Rocco, and Lucy, our 3-year old rescue, are getting along great, as you see https://i.imgur.com/kj5lp1X.jpeg
Congrats! He's beautiful.
Congratulations. I love dogs. Not that many years ago I had 5, 2 were old foundlings off the street who lived to 16 and 17 according to the vet. Dogs live longer when they have other dogs for company, just like people. My neighbor told me only white trash has so many dogs, so I bought a tee shirt that said you couldn't have too many dogs, and told him I would fill in his picture of me by no longer having my lawn mowed, and maybe I would let the car in my driveway grow old and rust, and leave it there. They're all gone, and now only 2. I've been thinking about another one.
I took in a stray border collie and she had puppies....we kept 5, placing one. They all lived long lives and behind me are 3 who are 13 and just got a clean bill of health. You are absolutely right....pack animals like dogs and guinea pigs should always have companions. I told my vet they should prescribe it and give discounts to encourage it.
Did he buy the discount part?
The vets here make you call from the car and turn your pet over to an assistant....it is getting a little folksy with people chatting outside, etc. But I plan on bringing this up again when it's possible. Thanks!
I'm in NY and it's the same here.
Better to be white trash than PMC, eh?
Well Tom if PMC stands for having PreMenstrual cramps your definitely right. I don't know these abbreviations.
White trash like Doris Day and Betty White.....what a snotty neighbor.
He was older then us, and he developed alzheimer's, and became really nice, and always wanted to take my dogs for walks, and play with them, but of course I didn't let him take them for walks. Strange.
That explains why God is so patient with all of us....
I like your response.
The authorities were given extraordinary powers to do the "right thing" and they did the wrong thing. The powers were supposed to be temporary but became permanent. The processes are not transparent, the deep state uses secret courts for legal cover and leaks fake documents to corporate media to build fake narratives. Giving them the power to detain foreigners was a mistake, it seems the powers cannot be taken away now and are being turned against Americans.
All of which was warned about by libertarians 20 years ago.
Much earlier. History repeats itself every 60-100 years and the survivors say "never again" every time. Obviously warnings have not been efficient though. Raising children and studying History with them might have helped.
Powers are never temporary. This needs to be ingrained in kids permanently.
Yes. Can we someday hardwire this into the DNA. Skepticism os State, also.
*of
Can I be hardwired to check spelling before posting?
Read Searching for the enemy by Bette Dam, about what USA did in Afghanistan after 9/11. You will find Rumsfelt again as the the impersonification of the stupidity of what USA mostly is.
The first war on terror was horrific and took up my earliest years of life. The second is happening in my early adulthood. Must be fought, but first, called out.
I agree wholeheartedly. But....
On 9/11, my wife was 4 months pregnant with my first child. Can you imagine our horror at what was done to us, you and me? We didn't know what the future held in store.
I, and my family, WILL fight Authoritarian Socialism (the police State), but I will fight separately from you, unless I hear an expression of righteous indignation also at what was done to US on 9/11.
Oh I understand. 9/11 was a horrifying experience for many people. It killed thousands and destroyed the most famous, popular buildings in the Americas. I understand that many embraced the war on terror out of fear. In some ways, it may be justified and I mean no blame on you.
You can fight separately from me or with me. Either way, we should be on the same side.
That's all I needed! We fight together.
And I don't think our response to 9/11 WAS justified.
I don’t know which side I fall on on that. I was too young at that time. What I do wonder is whether the opinion has changed now vs what it used to be back then when things happened? It’s much easier for us to say something was or wasn’t justified after things have already played out.
Most certainly it has, and for good reason. Yes, hindsight is a spouting poster's (me) best friend.
And since the response to 9/11 is a loooong and complicated subject, take my one sentence opinion about it for what it's worth.
Same as Assad and how can we forget Gaddafi. Gaddafi was no angel but at least he didn't allow slaves. Thanks to the regime change, now we have slavery back in Libya.
When you're so abused, as he was, your only option is to attain acceptance, or in his case, forgiveness. It is the only way to take back your life rather then allow the abuse to destroy and consume it with rage and revenge. He's fortunately an articulate man who has been able to use what happened to him to write a book, now a movie, and that's a great way to get back at your abusers, articulate what happened to you, a kind of therapy, and let the world acknowledge the injustice of what America did to you and what it continues to do to others. I would love to see the movie, and I can see it at home. I wanted those who were culpable punished, but never had a hawkish view on finding those who were responsible, and I hope many on this site didn't feel our many criminal abuses in pursuing those responsible was acceptable, or would want it repeated. I think most wouldn't. I didn't want them to kill osama bin Laden, and wanted to here his side of the story.
Yes! The people needed to see and hear OBL, before he was sentenced. The State does not trust us. OBLs will keep coming (blowback) until the State is made to trust US.
Is OBL really dead?
When 9/11 happened I was working in Queens, but family were in Manhattan. Scary, but a lot of questions afterwards. I try not to get into conspiracy theories, but it was shocking that some 19 hijackers could abscond with four of our planes bound for different places, and except for the one that crashed in PA the others hit their targets. Wow, does our security system suck. I hate providing excuses for their despicable behavior after 9/11, but maybe they were over compensating for their total ineptitude in terms of providing security, and sending a message to the world, mess with us again, and things will only get worse. Do I believe that? I don't know. I don't know if you are familiar with the Project for a New American Century, but it certainly wanted to take down countries in the Middle East, which we did, and before 9/11 they stated all we need is another Pearl Harbor and we can do it. They certainly used 9/11 to carry through the neocon agenda. You've heard of Kristol and Kagan, now talking heads for the democrats.
Well before Pearl Harbor FDR was poking and prodding the Japanese in the Pacific and hoping they would hit back so he could join Churchill in drawing a rabidly isolationist America into another World War. He got way more then he ever expected. Pearl Harbor was that prod on steroids. FDR never dreamed that such a massive attack would ever happen. He had his "Remember The Maine" moment. But like many politicians he did not let a crises go to waste and America marched off to war without any further cheerleading or excuses. Probably was the necessary thing to do in the end but the means was way too cynical by half. After all they tell us it was for our own good. Tell that to the individuals entombed in those sunken hulks at Pearl Harbor.
The Russians really won that war, and was it necessary for us to be there, well, I just don't know, but our liberty ships got a lot of ammo to them. Of course it was quite unnecessary, well a horror, for Truman to drop those atomic bombs on Japan, and all of this was followed by more death and destruction in the following 60 years, often on a covert level in South America, in Indonesia, including the middle east, and of course there was Vietnam. I don't think people realize who we really are, and I'm not talking about the people, but the government. I was so happy, no war in the last 4 years, but now what?
Without a two front war Hitler would have walked over Russia. Russia did not have to contend with Japan either and did not declare war on them until the very end. Russia did suffer terrible casualties because they were poorly trained and equipped. In any event WW II was a joint effort against some very powerful nations intent on ruling large segments of the world. Without allies we would have been in deep sh*t. And yes our Policeman of the World role has resulted in some horrible decisions by our elected officials. The fear of Communism was rational but our policies at times were irrational and unwarranted. Fear can do that to people and nations.
I won't argue your position about WWII, and the necessity for us to be in that war, and as far as the Russian death toll is concerned I'm no expert on that, but the war was also fought on their soil and certainly one reason for the high death toll. I don't agree that our fear of communism is, or was rational, and it has always been used as an excuse to gain greater US dominance in the world.
Yes. 245 years. When will the politicians learn to follow and trust the people?
According to news reports (and Bhutto in an interview with David Frost), OBL died from kidney disease in the fall of 2001. He had Marfan’s Syndrome and was treated many times in several major medical centers, and was visited by a CIA station chief while hospitalized in the summer of 2001.
Interesting how he was on near constant dialysis but yet was able to orchestrate the implosion of 3 major NYC skyscrapers in one day! Plus destroying just one corner of The Pentagon where an audit of two trillion dollars that were “lost” (according to Rumsfeld the day prior) was on-going!
And a stand-down order for the entire eastern US military!
Damn! That OBL, even on his deathbed was some incredible mastermind of destruction! (Cough)
If someone is to be executed in MY name, then I must SEE it.
So glad he is at least done with that ordeal, as much as person can be done with it. I wonder to what camps will 70 million Trump Supporters be sent?
Keep letting the left have their way, it’s called mass graves…
Support for Trump is really a symptom of a deeper problem with American society in general. It is the canary in the coal mine and should be heeded. Those 70 million are not "other." They are Americans who want what we all want. A representative gov't that listens to its' citizens and heeds their concerns.
The cartoonish depiction of them as rednecked, knuckle dragging, toothless morons by too many professional prigs and media elites might just result in the dissolving of the bonds that have always held this nation together. Even if those bonds were an illusion shared by the citizens of this nation. That illusion is in then process of being wiped away and a new paradigm of a domestic "us and them" is replacing it. It is the Balkanization of our nation. Even during the Civil War Americans saw themselves as being involved in a "family dispute" rather than the other side being forever irredeemable. Now we are in dangerous times and should consider what we are about before it is too late. Boundries do not a nation make. The genocidal actions within many nations (Rwanda, Germany & the Balkans) can happen anywhere where people start to believe others are less that human or are enemies of their way of life. Beware and Be Aware.
This is also why I didn’t see a single thing wrong in what Gina Carano tweeted. Media is already treating trump supporters as less than human, talking about re-education camps, AOC tweeting about making lists of trump supporters and getting them fired from their jobs and what not. If they keep poking the bear this way, soon the bear won’t have anything to lose.
Your replay sounds like it's directed at me for disparaging Trump Supporters. I do not do that. My statement about them being sent somewhere was making fun of the view many others in the media hold. And yes, I largely agree with your comment.
Sorry but lately there has been much talk and recommendations in media about "re-educating" and/or punishing Trump supporters. Reacting to that noise rather than you. Again sorry I missed your point.
I want to be a chef in the gulags. Since there isn’t much food, I won’t have to do much work either. I think.
What if you're forced to prepare "soylent green"?
I’ll probably jump in the grinder myself.
Events sometimes come full circle, and those who accepted the foreign War on Terror will be the most likely recipients of the domestic and substantially refined version.
And to think. Men and women once braved a brutal and unforgiving frontier for a chance at freedom. Now it has come to this, a nation cowering from an enemy that poses no rational threat to it. One willing to abandon its soul entire to avoid even the slightest chance of harm. And for what? A few more years of deteriorating health and more junk to throw in a storage facility? Embarrassing.
Happy Birthday a couple of days ago, Glenn. Hope it was joyous. Thanks for your good work. You are a light that we all need these days.
Look forward to watching the movie. I was one of those Americans who was so angry after 9/11 that I roughly fell into the "Time to take the gloves off." camp. Terrible fact patterns like this one suffered by Mr. Slahi indicate that Glenn's civil liberties concerns regarding GWOT (global war on terror) were entirely warranted and that my dismissal of those concerns was wrong. It seems Glenn has been entirely consistent for twenty years; the inconsistency is who constitutes his detractors.
Thanks for the canary in the coal mine.....the prospect of Patriot 2021 is not so much shocking as fatalistic.
History suggests that the US swings to an extreme (think McCarthy or WW2 internment) but we, over time, swing back.
Not so sure this time we will be able to swing back but Mr. Slahi's perspective on forgiveness is inspirational and calming.
DIFFERENT SUBJECT:
Your business and productivity is admirable. However, please keep breaks / vacations in mind. And work to avoid PVBs (post-vacation blues) but having a future trip planned after your conclude your next well-earned break.
Thanks for all.
How individuals like this man and others like Nelson Mandela endure and retain their humanity and decency is a testament to the power of a good soul vs the darkest impulses of humanity. Even the massive evils of Nazism and abuses of Communism eventually fall and the darkness is pushed back by the dawn. One definition of "God" is --- hope and love. How they endure is a mystery given the forces that conspire to destroy those gifts. A single man like this is a light in the darkness.
if you are abused the only way to save your self, your soul, is to learn to accept what has happened, or forgive, or both, otherwise you only give your abuser more power.
For anyone who hasn't read the book, it is important to realize that Guantanamo itself is full of people who are also quite decent, and who realized at the time that a huge wrong was being done to this man, as well as many others. At least a few of them tried to rectify it, and failed.
Especially in the Larry Siems introduction, you can see how the military deals with anyone who still has some sense of reality -- and how, in the process, it destroys its own competence and ability to function effectively.
I wrote a long piece about this phenomenon many years ago, before Slahi was released, and I think it still holds up, even at this distance.
https://dark-mountain.net/at-the-mercy-of-fools/
Many thanks to Glenn for this interview -- time spent in the presence of this man gives me hope, and I appreciate you bringing him to us.
Glenn I donated to your work with homeless animals and it inspited me to adopt another homeless kitten. The article on Mr Slahi was powerful and what a hero he is. My assistant is ordering 5 copies his book Guantanamo Diaries and my church group and I will wath the video this weekend. One minor suggestion which, if not of value, please toss aside: I would consider adding in your articles the potential that our overreaching government will use legislation 1021 which at one page long, is buried in the NDAA in the counterterrorism section. To my amatuer eye 1021 is the Patriot Act on steroids and could, if implimented be ironically, as dangerous to any American's liberty-including those imlementing it- as it is so inclusive as to make anyone vulnerable to arrest, without charges or habeau Corpus. If it is helpful here is short article about it: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dear-americans-this-law-makes-it-possible-to-arrest_b_57c9b648e4b06c750dd9cd6f . Judge Spring wrote a brilliant opinion in the first Federal court siding with the defendent that the legislation was unconsitutional in Hedge versus Obama. Sadly, soon after, it is my understanding, the DOJ requested a stay arguing no standing for defendent and the case was not accepted at Appeals Court. In my opinion, the legislation 1021 is a serious issue that has the potential to do great harm as few Americans talk about and even less are aware of. Perhaps you could waive in with your expertise as I am hoping I am wrong about the legislation's potential danger to hurt our freedoms in these Orwelian times. Most important keep up the fine work.Thank you, Steve