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"He had a duty to protect and serve and someone died in his custody who was presumed innocent until proven guilty." Yes he did, but the question is did he have a fair trial to determine his guilt or innocence? No, he did not. If it were a loved one I would feel the same way. I grew up in a home where my father was very authoritarian and…
"He had a duty to protect and serve and someone died in his custody who was presumed innocent until proven guilty." Yes he did, but the question is did he have a fair trial to determine his guilt or innocence? No, he did not. If it were a loved one I would feel the same way. I grew up in a home where my father was very authoritarian and lied repeatedly to his extended family so that he could be seen as the victim and not the abuser. I saw them buy his lies, because psychologically it was less disturbing then recognize their brother was mentally ill, which would then demand a response. This society also wants to sweep everything under the carpet, but when you do that things only get worse. The money the city gave to the family said Chauvin is guilty, and it spoke to the jury pool who would determine Chauvin's innocence or guilt, and it said, find him guilty.
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They can also both be true. He can also both be guilty and did not get a fair trial. They are not mutually exclusive.
Don't disagree, but he didn't get a fair trial and that should disturb people.
It does but he can get in a fucking ridiculously long line with a lot more sympathetic victims and wait his turn to be forgiven imo.
I think that goes back to Glenn’s original point in the article (and Fran’s) — principles only defended when the victim is considered “sympathetic” aren’t built on solid ground and the ACLU used to have a reputation for defending unsympathetic parties as a matter of principle. They no longer do that for whatever reason (Glenn’s argument is pretty convincing but I think there’s more to it personally) and now there are no non-party-specific advocacy groups to stand up for unsympathetic people that can weather the heat of public outrage.
It goes beyond what you think of him, because when you judge a person guilty, as the state did, and intimidate the jury pool, you make the system worse then it already is.
OK so I should be outraged for his unfair trial because he is a sympathetic victim but the other millions of people who got shafted but never made it to the news?
Its almost like (GASP) the media is gaslighting people to care about this on both sides and reaping the $ while we argue nonstop and miss the bigger issue.
ACCOUNTABILITY FOR GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES
Which explains why with 2.5 million people currently arrested in some way we have by far the largest prison population in the world.
Something many believed was good (Tom Cotton said we have an under incarceration problem) until a police officer was on trial.
I like how you tied a conservative to something negative with your post despite the real rampant crime and incarceration numbers coming from deep in downtown dnc land.
Its really weird how you also ignore the fact that the democrats have had total control in states and cities for 60+ years and done nothing but bitch about conservatives and spend $
Joe Biden's direct crime bill put a lot of those people in jail.
But here the fuck you are mentioning Tom Cotton.
You mean like how Chauvin did to Floyd?
That’s what I’ve been saying.
I've seen you passionately arguing for a ton of conservative things on here....yet you want me to believe if a hood police officer killed someone you loved dearly and you watched it on video with the rest of the world, you wouldn't be just as passionately claiming that cop was in the wrong?
Riiiiiiiight
This isn't about Chauvin being right or wrong - he's gonna rot in prison regardless of this case as he's got tax problems too.
This is about having a fair trial and until that happens, he's innocent. And if we are really talking about "if a hood police officer killed someone you loved dearly and you watched it on video with the rest of the world" and if this loved one was a history of breaking into pregnant women's houses with 5 other dudes and beating her up in front of her kid and then pushing the gun against her pregnant belly, then I wouldn't feel any remorse.
No. Its about accountability for government employees.
The same way conservatives for 10 years have been yelling for it from the Democrat FBI/Pelosi/etc the black community has been yelling about it for a hundred years from the police. And their citizens are being killed unlike conservatives who are just being silenced. The concept that their might be some reason to silence or kill is RIDICULOUS. At no point are those acceptable outcomes for a government employee to impose on any private citizen without full fair trial. The rule of law demands it.
They are identical issues (ACCOUNTABILITY FOR GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES) framed completely differently by the uniparty fucking us and pretending they are enemies.
You're an unusual Conservative Iconoclast.
Most Conservatives I know distrust the government until it's a person with a gun, a blue clown suit and a police union with qualified immunity. Then suddenly that distrust turns into blind unquestioning trust for these vallorious truth telling Nights in White Satin.
I suspect Daddy issues, but the world may never know.
Not always - I am right leaning but as I have said several times before, I am not the "back the blue" types as I believe spineless cops who only listen to what their boss tells them instead of upholding the constitution are the same ones who will probably one day arrive at your door step to disarm you - just like they did with arresting innocent business owners who just tried to make a living over the last year. You could hold a back the blue rally and police would stand by and watch as Antifa decapitates you and then curbstomp your severed head because it doesn’t have a mask on it.
But despite this, Chauvin did not get a fair trial and this was a lynching by the mob trial. We are not defending Chauvin here, we are trying to defend a tiny bit of integrity in the already politicized justice system.
I know several other conservatives who feel similarly.
So whats different about this than simi valley in the early 1990s?
The first trial for Stacy Koon and company was rigged for the police. The second was rigged against them.
What about the OJ trial? How about Jeffrey Epstein? How about Louis Greco?
Where does this perception of fair trials come from? Oh right the same media we all agree has been lying to us forever. LOL.
I had a long conversation with a police chief recently. He was lamenting the focus on managing the numbers. It was an eye opener. After much back and forth, I suggested that managing to #of tickets written accomplishes nothing that furthers the department's real goal, safety for its community. He asked me what the alternative was and I told him to focus on two things:
1. What is the actual goal of the PD? To set ticket quotas or to achieve some level of safety / security for the community? I suggested agreeing with community leaders on what the PD's real objectives were.
2. Once you have the real objectives identified, discuss, amongst actual professionals, what is the PROCESS for achieving those objectives? Then identify and agree with patrol on what the process steps are to achieve those objectives (similar to an 8d used in engineering and statistical process control) and then coach the shit out of those techniques. Rinse / repeat and agree with patrol on up on what good process is. Then identify what those techniques are and identify what "numbers" within that process actually = success. Focus on continuously improving adherence to those techniques. Also, read some Deming or Juran.
Interestingly enough...he agreed. There is hope. One Chief at a time. I'll be talking to him some ore.
Maybe because unlike most conservatives sitting in the suburbs I've spent weeks in county locked up with real criminals. I've seen what crime and police and bullshit do on every side and every side is being full of shit about reality.
I dont trust the government period. I don't trust the police because I've seen them lie, steal, rob and kill for decades with no accountability. Just like EVERY SINGLE GOVERNMENT GROUP.
They are just a front facing one so its more in your face every day when they do it.
Not sure where your "daddy issues" comment comes from, but I suspect its because you don't know who yours is.
Looks like you and I share a similar experience in this area. This is not something that can be faked. You can tell when someone distrusts the government on a theoretical level and when someone has personal experience with unaccountable government corruption.
You're right, I never met my father. I did meet your mother a few times though.
I do see some common ground.
Unfortunately I don't have a mother. My father and I do share yours though.
Distrust of government without reasonable checks and balances is a healthy thing. I wish more Americans questioned the governments stance on everything, but especially foreign policy.