Assange has now faced 7 years of embassy house-arrest plus 2 years of regular prison in the UK, all without a trial. Remember when the west used to be called the free world?
Bill, this will be my last response to you, because I don't find value in having discussions with you. You aren't looking for discussions, you are looking to browbeat anyone who disagrees with you, and without citing any evidence to support any of your claims other than your own opinions.
You are the Trump side of the lifer DNC coin and I dont want to waste any more time trying to educate you.
I'm firmly with William on this one, Icon. You've proved to be either completely dumb on the topic or deliberately choose to be obtuse to troll. Either way, Timmy is your guy. Stroke each other's Russia hating dildo as it suits you.
I'll take a non-Nazi, non-racist, non-xenophobic type no matter how goofy they are any day, Icon. You're not in that category. Brownshirt is your type of a top. Brownnosing is the favorite activity of Timmy's.
Brown is what unites you. Throw those right arms of yours in the appropriate direction while looking in the mirror. What a sight!
So you agree then? Awesome! Should be no hard feelings from now on.
You're now officially welcome to the brownshirt family. I'll think about the rank for you. For now Amy's your boss. Timmy's firmly underneath her. Between you two it's a tossup.
So what we see playing out here is an illustration of what I have often proposed: that consensus is always temporary. That means that our agreements within any consensus will always shift from agreement to disagreement within the terms of discourse as more perspectives are seen and experienced.
We are beings with many personas developing through time.
Our own individuality develops through time, just as we grow from children to adult, the adult evolves into different personas as we deal with changes in the world and our place in it.
Since the covid hysteria I have been having strange disturbing dreams of being inside of a strange building that I cannot find my way out of. Sometimes these are just weird houses, sometimes huge buildings with elevators and escalators. Often in these dreams there are strange alien like people attempting to lock me into a particular room...
I awake from these dreams baffled at the amazing detail and seeming reality of the images and feelings.
I had one of those dreams during a nap today. As I thought about it while making a pot of coffee, it struck me; these dreams have a lot to do with the real world at hand today, with the 'lockdowns' the masks, the threats of illness and danger of poisonous serums being mandated by the authorities.
These structures I am trapped in while dreaming are analogous to this strange new world paradigm of the "Pandemic".
Do nightmares end when the source is discovered? I doubt it....
There is an indispensable relationship between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. This lesson explores the universal principles outlined in the Declaration and their implications for the form of just government. The argument of the Declaration culminates in the colonists’ solemn pledge to each other of their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.
Hard-to-find 2020 election fraud stories and links
DATED: OCTOBER 1, 2021 BY SHARYL ATTKISSON
It is easy to find one side of the story when it comes to allegations of 2020 election fraud, but not so easy to get details regarding the other side of the story.
Below, you will find a variety of links to stories and information that is not being widely reported in some press circles. Too often, reporters and analysts are making incorrect claims and conclusions in their reporting, and are weighing in as if advocates rather than presenting factual information and differing views.
As you peruse the links below, it's left to you, as always, to assess the information and decide for yourself what to think. The goal here is simply to make accessible material that powerful interests are trying to censor.
Please note that depending on when you read this, some of the news links or material may be outdated so be sure and continue searching for your own information to stay current.
Heinlein's dialog, while never his strength, evolved over time similarly to his world view. "Starship Troopers", while entertaining, is fascist, militarist apologia; by the time he wrote novels such as "Time Enough for Love" and "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" he was nearly a libertarian.
"Starship Troopers", while entertaining, is fascist, militarist apologia"--Sam Iamo
No it is not. You didn't get it, Heinlein's 'Starship Troopers' is a satirical pantomime of the military draft, the whole thing is a futuristic 'commercial' to join the military. The movie, being audiovisual gets this across even better than the book.
I would have thought someone as sophisticated as yourself would have appreciated that Sam.
According to the Heinlein Society (heinleinsociety.org) and several other sources, ST (originally Starship Soldiresm in two installmets) was written as a negative reponse to proposalsfor the US to end nuclear testing. It was definitely not satire, unfortunately: Heinlein was quite serious about the concept of allowing voting franchise to only armed forces veterans. I once had a link to an interview with Heinlein from the 1980s or 90s in which he stipulated this (link long lost). Fortunately he extensively rethought his philosophy. Whether the movie is intended to lampoon those ideas, or merely ape the recently popular "meat cartoon" style of superhero movies, I cannot say. I will occasionally tape it, watch once, then delete as I find it amusing, even though ludicrous.
He's not wrong (I am right leaning and more pro Trump). Trump should have pardoned Assange and Snowden - the very victims of the deep state, spying, forever wars etc he had been complaining about for 5 years. That would have started the "drain the swamp" but he chickened out. I also blame Mitch McConnel and other RINOs for preventing Trump from doing it but the buck stops with Trump.
Key phrase: "one is free." One (Me!) is not free if one is not allowed to decide for oneself the point of irrelevancy. Pointing out this "point of irrelevancy" is always nothing more than an insubstantive call to censor.
Depending on the device used to read Substack comments, and the sorting chosen, scrolling past the irrelevant comments can involve more than trivial effort. I don't particularly want to see columnist moderation, but it would be nice if the technology was changed so that (for one example) readers could suppress specific commenters, or threads. Frankly, I am less than impressed with Substack's tech on a number of fronts.
Agreed. But I have become enamored of Substack's simplicity. I think it adds to a sense of non-censoring freedom, and therefore honesty and substance (is that where the "sub-" in Substack comes from?) in posting.
You want to pontificate at length, go ahead, You don't want to read said "garbage" (remember, YOU get to judge), scroll on.
Why is Snowden stuck in Russia because the US nixed his passport indicate Snowden is shady? Obviously it is the US and NSA who are the goon squad here.
Glen wrote a whole article about how Snowden was deliberately trapped in Russia by the Obama admin. They did this so that you would think exactly what you do think..
And here we come to the heart of the matter, aka Icon's beef.
Just a little while ago we agreed that he didn't reveal anything that special services around the world wouldn't know. Unless those do not include the Russian one then what else did he bring them?
And you maintain that was his plan all along? And Greenwald and Co got taken for a ride?
Why does that sound so far-fetched? We just saw HRC's lawyer charged for selling the media a big bullshit story. Why is that so preposterous to believe happened here?
For the record, I dont maintain anything other than
1. Edward told us nothing we didn't already know.
2. What Edward showed, got no actual changes.
3. Edward currently lives in arguably a less free country than the one he was 'whistleblowing'.
Given those three facts its hard not to think there is something shady about it all.
4 of my first 5 comments on CBC’s “ Controversial whistleblower Chelsea Manning fighting to be let into Canada” were deactivated…yet gobs of Americans were permitted to shout “No!”
Perhaps Trump should have granted Snowden a pardon for MOST of the offenses but not all of them. Snowden said he would be willing to face a prosecution in the US if it did not mean facing life imprisonment or a long imprisonment; and also if he would be allowed to present something like a "necessity" defense.
If Snowden was only liable for misdemeanor offenses (or for only the most minor felonies) such that he would face, at most, 1 year in prison, we could then judge Snowden's credibility by choosing to come home.
The national security organs tend to seek maximum punishment for people who embarrass them. I think Snowden committed crimes and should be prosecuted; but I don't think he should be sent to jail for life. I think a max sentence of 1 year would be appropriate. But look at the Jonathan Pollard case. Pollard leaked info to a US ally...Israel. Yet the NSA/FBI/CIA wanted Pollard in jail for life.
Trump was too susceptible to being played by those around him. Not nearly so much as Biden and for different reasons (Biden has no choice as he is quite senile) and the people around Biden are far worse. However, I have no doubt that some of Trump's advisors were also in the employ of the so-called "Deep State", and that makes his pliability a liability (sorry, that just came right out of my fingertips unbiddened). It seems to be a dilemma - a political "insider" as President is corrupt by definition, but an outsider, even though he or she brings a fresh outlook and approach to office, is forced to rely to a large extent on "insiders", who are corrupt by definition...
Would "hammer", "screwdriver" and "pliers" all be synonyms for the word you have in mind? Nevertheless, Trump was far less bad in that regard then Biden, Shrub, Carter, Ford, and probably Reagan, and less of a direct dick than Johnson, Nixon, Bush Elder, or Clinton (if I omitted any recent Oval Office occupants, it was an inadvertant oversight) so approbation should be applied proportionately.
Actually, if we're serious, then no. It's much simpler - "gullible" which leads to "stupid".
And "stupid" is what all people are in certain individual areas to a certain degree. I'm not talking of clinically stupid. He, Trump, proved not to be smart politically, or he is corrupt there as most must be.
That's how I'd word your "too susceptible to being played by those around him".
You blame Trump? What a fool He came forward during the Obama regime and the entire establishment went insane It was the Obama regime during the Wikileaks uproar as well. Your assertion is preposterous.
Not only could have pardoned both, but doing so would have been a splendid way of getting revenge on the security state apparatus that sought to undermine his first campaign for the White House, and undermined his Presidency and (with major help from Big Tech) his second campaign, all the while serving the constitutional order that is actually the foundation of any claim to greatness America actually has (thus putting some flesh on the bones of his campaign slogan). But... he didn't.
We all know that the CIA was out to bash Trump, and Pompeo was another member of the deep state that had infiltrated Trumps cabinet and took advantage of his confidence, just like Mike Pence and Gen. Milley. Trump was surrounded by traitors the whole 4 years of his administration, especially when the FBI was able to cut down Gen. Michael Flynn, who was Trumps first National Security Advisor.
Trump was not in the loop for the secret plan to kidnap Assange.
Yahoo News, is as reliable as the New York Time....not to be believed at all.
So? If you are a true patriot, why would you care that you might get bashed by the CIA? I am right leaning and more pro Trump. But Trump should have pardoned Assange and Snowden - the very victims of the deep state, spying, forever wars etc he had been complaining about for 5 years. That would have started the "drain the swamp" but he chickened out. I also blame Mitch McConnel and other RINOs for preventing Trump from doing it but the buck stops with Trump.
Don't you think Assange would have liked borscht better than whatever he's fed in the comfortable English accommodation? Not far from where the Queen is? Must be so soothing for him to be where democracy was born.
Turns out CIA was afraid of such a development: "Scenarios included abducting Assange from the embassy, intercepting a Russian effort to extract him, or an outright assassination attempt."
It is a big difference, thank you for pointing this out.
I may not have agree with much of Obama's politics but the Manning commutation sure plays a hell of a lot better than the Marc Rich pardon or the Kwame Kilpatrick one.
I don't need to defend Snowden for avoiding being extradited. But I do want to take this opportunity to bash you for holding Snowden in contempt as if you have the right to judge his actions.
He is a whistle blower who acted on his conscience when he knew it would be a danger to himself. Sane and thoughtful people find such selfless acts heroic. Only assholes such as yourself criticize such heroism.
Again Randal fucking Rose, the facts are spun by mainstream outlets like Yahoo, just like the NY TIMES. People who understand that know that facts a malleable in the hands of spin doctors.
What facts? There isn't a single linked piece of evidence to that article.
I just read it and maybe I missed "YAHOO NEWS" take on this but I don't see any evidence to support the media/Trump masturbation angle of CIA was out to get Snowden.
Was there a link to actual evidence somewhere in that story I missed?
‘I am not afraid, because this is the choice I’ve made’
Three weeks ago, Snowden made final preparations that resulted in last week’s series of blockbuster news stories. At the NSA office in Hawaii where he was working, he copied the last set of documents he intended to disclose.
He then advised his NSA supervisor that he needed to be away from work for “a couple of weeks” in order to receive treatment for epilepsy, a condition he learned he suffers from after a series of seizures last year.
As he packed his bags, he told his girlfriend that he had to be away for a few weeks, though he said he was vague about the reason. “That is not an uncommon occurrence for someone who has spent the last decade working in the intelligence world.”
On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since. He chose the city because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent”, and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.
In the three weeks since he arrived, he has been ensconced in a hotel room. “I’ve left the room maybe a total of three times during my entire stay,” he said. It is a plush hotel and, what with eating meals in his room too, he has run up big bills.
He is deeply worried about being spied on. He lines the door of his hotel room with pillows to prevent eavesdropping. He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.
Though that may sound like paranoia to some, Snowden has good reason for such fears. He worked in the US intelligence world for almost a decade. He knows that the biggest and most secretive surveillance organisation in America, the NSA, along with the most powerful government on the planet, is looking for him.
Since the disclosures began to emerge, he has watched television and monitored the internet, hearing all the threats and vows of prosecution emanating from Washington.
And he knows only too well the sophisticated technology available to them and how easy it will be for them to find him. The NSA police and other law enforcement officers have twice visited his home in Hawaii and already contacted his girlfriend, though he believes that may have been prompted by his absence from work, and not because of suspicions of any connection to the leaks.
“All my options are bad,” he said. The US could begin extradition proceedings against him, a potentially problematic, lengthy and unpredictable course for Washington. Or the Chinese government might whisk him away for questioning, viewing him as a useful source of information. Or he might end up being grabbed and bundled into a plane bound for US territory.
Nonsense Wilcoxson, Trump was busy trying to defend himself for false impeachment charges in the last week of his term, which is when most pardons are issued. He had a lot on his hands with that witch Pelosi casting voodoo spells on him.
Look Iconoclast. It is a cost/benefit analysis. Trump pardoned someone you consider a bad actor, but the overall benefit of the Trump presidency overwhelms that one act that you disapprove of.
Your assertions of Trump supporters being a cult or a "religion" is absolute bullshit.
He was busy pardoning Kwame Kilpatrick a truly sympathetic individual if ever there was one give him a break the guy is a hardcore Trump supporter politically I mean come on.
Obama would never take the risk. Trump, having been subjected to similar actions from unelected deep state actors, should have exposed them by pardoning Assange and Snowden and let the interviews and discussions begin. It would have been epic.
Assange and Snowden should’ve been pardoned by the outgoing Trump administration. One of the few things that Trump should’ve done and didn’t.
Can you imagine how they felt when the traitorous Bowe Bergdahl showed up arm in arm with Obama in the Rose Garden and playing kissy face? The left is better at pretending.
The Presidential pardon on the way out the door is one of the dirty little things about politics imo.
How is it OK to just throw out the conviction that was legally obtained because you are the President? The entire concept throws out due process just like a contempt of court case does. The fact that it comes from the top just validates the invalidation of law and order that people on all sides are tired of.
No, no longer ironic, but it will become a stock gag with the American right, the way calling Democrats, " 'Rats" did after they protested loudly about an ad with a text crawl having the last four letters of "Democrats" show briefly with nothing else on the screen.
Oh, come on, Whitten, the "RethugliCONs" are part of it, too! You should know by now that it's really a "one-party" system disguised as a "two-party" system. The globalist "Fourth Reich" Party and its neo-Nazis are made up of both sides of the political "divide (and conquer)". Most of their members may be "liberals", but many of them are "conservatives" too. They're ALL really neoliberals, including the neocons, and they ALL want absolute totalitarian control, and subjugation and enslavement, and eventual death, of all those who are not with them (most people; seven billion people), a part of globalist corporate-fascist, elitist cabal / regime (remember the Bilderburg Group, you think they're all "Democrats"?). People like the controllers of FOX are secretly neoliberals too. Even people like Putin are probably secretly globalists as well [otherwise he would have been assassinated, deposed and/or "gulagged" long ago---look at what happened to Noriega, Hussein, Kaddafi, etc., when they were no longer useful and supposedly became a "threat", and who used to work for "al CIAduh(!)"]. The globalists control almost every aspect of world government, turning it into global government (enslavement), and are doing so more and more. Heck, the Chinese government's top political and corporate leaders are probably globalists, too. But Oceania has to keep up the pretext of being at war with Eastasia, and then switching "enemies" over and over again, keeping the global(ist) endless war for obscene profiting going interminably. Wake up completely and stop being partisan, falling for the divide and conquer strategy.
Wolf, if you refuse to see the distinction between Trump's policies, and those of this criminal Biden regime, that is not my problem, it is yours.
The neocon Republicans of the Bush-Cheney regime, and the neoliberal Democrats of the Obama regime are one thing; your classical Hegelian synthesis.
However, the Trump Republicans are a brand new anima. as can be seen in the distinction between the RINO's like Liz Cheney and the Trump Republicans.
Trump is a Patriot to the Declaration and the Constitution. Biden is a traitor to the constitution and a confirmed globalist:
John Kerry reveals Biden's devotion to radical 'Great Reset' movement
In June, elites at important international institutions such as the World Economic Forum and the United Nations launched a far-reaching campaign to “reset” the global economy.
The plan involves dramatically increasing the power of government through expansive new social programs like the Green New Deal and using vast regulatory schemes and government programs to coerce corporations into supporting left-wing causes.
The two justifications for the proposal, which has been aptly named by its supporters the “Great Reset,” are the COVID-19 pandemic (the short-term justification) and the so-called “climate crisis” caused by global warming (the long-term justification).
According to the Great Reset’s supporters, the plan would fundamentally transform much of society. As World Economic Forum (WEF) head Klaus Schwab wrote back in June, “the world must act jointly and swiftly to revamp all aspects of our societies and economies, from education to social contracts and working conditions. Every country, from the United States to China, must participate, and every industry, from oil and gas to tech, must be transformed. In short, we need a ‘Great Reset’ of capitalism.”
[......]
This isn’t the first time Kerry has thrown his weight behind the Great Reset. At a June World Economic Forum virtual event, Kerry said the coronavirus pandemic was “a big moment” that opened the door for the Great Reset and that, “The World Economic Forum – the CEO capacity of the Forum – is really going to have to play a front and center role in refining the Great Reset to deal with climate change and inequity — all of which is being laid bare as a consequence of COVID-19.”
The evidence is now crystal clear about Biden’s connection to the Great Reset. He, John Kerry and the rest of the Biden administration are planning to bring the Great Reset to the United States. And if they are successful, the country will never be the same.
Spend 20 minutes learning about him and recognize that conceptually he stands for everything Trump "claimed" to be against.
There were many things I thought Trump was a huge hypocrite on, like appointing Devos, after bitching about the swamp, but at least she ostensibly supported his politics.
Kilpatrick represents everything wrong with politics. Trump pardoning him to me is the equivalent to him getting a Nazi tattoo if I was a jew. Its a fucking dealbreaker and a non-starter.
On January 20, 2021, President Donald Trump commuted Kilpatrick's sentence with less than 12 hours remaining before he was due to leave office.[163] The White House statement on the pardoning of Kilpatrick reads: "Mr. Kilpatrick has served approximately 7 years in prison for his role in a racketeering and bribery scheme while he held public office. During his incarceration, Mr. Kilpatrick has taught public speaking classes and has led Bible Study groups with his fellow inmates."[163] President Trump's commutation allowed Kilpatrick to gain release 20 years early, though it did not vacate his conviction.[8] The commutation left in place the almost $4.8 million in restitution and the three-year probation.[164] Kilpatrick will not be able to run for office in Michigan until 2033 as a felon is excluded from politics for 20 years after conviction under Michigan law.[165]
Kilpatrick is a criminal, no doubt, But he did spend time in prison.
I know you are utterly outraged by this Iconoclast.
But I simply don't give a shit. I now you don't like that I don't give a shit...AND on top of that I don't give a shit that you don't like that I don't give a shit.
Fuck it man, I am not going to argue about this trivial damned thing anymore.
Of course I distinguish between the policies of TrumpCON and those of the "al CIAduh(!)" Manchurian candidate, "Can't-aBide(n)-him-CON's" regime! But they're still BOTH evil, vile people. TrumpCON is no more a true patriot to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution than Biden and his regime. Yes, Trump sounded good in much of the lead-up to 2016 when he was campaigning, and I agreed with much of what he purported to believe, as many non-"RethugliCONs" and non-"conservatives" did; but like ClintonCON, ObamaCON and BidenCON, and all of the other "al CIAduh(!)"-controlled puppets like them, he was lying through is teeth about most of it. If you can't see that, which obviously you can't, that is your problem, not mine.
You don't have to keep spamming about the "Great Reset" movement. I've seen your many posts on the topic, and I agree that it exists and that it is close to perpetrating its coup d'gras on humanity, etc., so you also don't need to tell me that. I know that Biden is part of it. Yet, a Godless, self-aggrandizing sicko worshiper of money and hording it, endless liar, extremely-phony, unreality showboater, egotist lover of being hero-worshiped, and so on, is NOT a "savior".
"Hypothetically-questioning", when does Trump give glory to God, when does he glorify the One and Only True God and Jesus the Christ, rather than glorifying money, the root of all evil? Answer? He doesn't. Why? Because he's an extremely-evil, vile Satanist.
Heck, when do YOU give ANY glory to God? I've never seen, in all of your endless spamming, your giving one iota of glory to God. You probably claim to be a "Christian"; but, if so, all you are is nothing but a counterfeit "Christian" like all professed-"Christians".
God says in His Word(s) to "know (people) by their fruits"; and, for all you have right, you glorify yourself. and sow real hatred, the fruits of Satan, not God. Now, tear me a new a-hole, as you've done to so many people here and elsewhere, I don't give a damn.
Oh, believe me, I have the (True) Imagination for (True) Reality since I have the Biblical Gift of Discernment. You, on the other hand, have neither. You, like so many others, have a great deal correct, and you think you're completely awake, but clearly you are not. Let's agree to disagree. (ONLY True) Peace (through the Prince of Peace, Jesus the Christ) out.
Why? You say because you "have the Biblical Gift of have the Biblical Gift of Discernment.
I say that the ability of 'Discernment' is a learned ability, through study, and maturity dependent on each individual's innate capacity, plus the environmental situations of that individual's experiences.
If Wolf were born in the Middle East, say Saudi Arabia, the likelihood would be that he would be a Muslim and he would claim that he has the Quran's Gift of Discernment. And of course there are many variations on this theme that could be proposed.
Excuse me for approaching this issue in a rational manner. Although I do hold firm spiritual conceptualizations, I will not propagate those as a basis for my assertions. But I will refer to the Cartesian Dilemma in passing. And remind that secular language is appropriate for a mixed society of varied belief systems.
I don't have to tear you a new asshole' Wolf, because it doesn't matter to me what you think about Trump. You are free to have any opinions you like.
I think your contention that Trump is "an extremely-evil, vile Satanist," is preposterous. And such an assertion makes you seem like a religious fanatic. If that widens your asshole unbearably I am very sorry.
Wow I never thought you would go off on me like that. Everyone is full of surprises these days. Must be the Season of the Witch.
Clearly, if Jesus the Christ were walking the Earth today as a man, you would think him a "religious fanatic", too. I was simply correcting what you said, and I did not mean for it to come off as "go(ing) off on (you)".
WHAT DID SNOWDEN BLOW THE WHISTLE ON THAT MARK KLEIN HADNT ALREADY BLOWN IT ON PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ACTUAL POSITIVE RESULTS OTHER THAN "AWARENESS" EDWARD SNOWDEN GAVE US.
Im yelling because in 2 years on this board no one can answer me as to what positive effect the Snowden revelations had other than "Awareness".
Nothing he told us Mark Klein hadn't already told us years ago. The only difference is Edward proved that what Mark had alleged years earlier was true.
You mean the awareness he got from that incident? That then caused Pierre to create a company with him? That he then had to quit when he realized Pierre was just as much of a shitlord and was happy to torpedo stories?
Its almost like the Snowden story was weaponized just like a lot of others.
Mark Klein is not on the NASA kill list like Snowden is. Proving Klein's assertions was the CRITCAL aspect of this case. THAT Iconoclast, is the positive effect the Snowden revelations had, ACTUAL PROOF.
Do you honestly think it was any coincidence that all of that information "leaked" after the telecoms were granted immunity or do you think that was also "just dumb luck".
They only released this information because they knew no one would ever get in trouble for it. And did anyone? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE.
Sure Edward proved what Mark alleged, but the Supreme Court could have demanded that years before in Hepting v AT&T. They chose not to so Edward let it out anyways and the big results and changes of that were.....
Yeah, I know. But we're talking about opportunistic deployment of a whistleblower as lever to pry more censorship into FB. If you can't stomach that without shouting about your pwn pet interests, GYOFB.
They (whoever it may be) get a person to impeach their enemy's credibility in some way.
I mean does a single person on this board think Blumenthal is an honest dude?
Lets also all take a moment to point out how this was stolen corporate information that the mainstream media was happy to talk about unlike the "stolen" Hunter Biden laptop which was blacklisted.
If you think you are woke and dont see this FB thing as an attempt to control the media (as Glenn's entire article points out), you aren't paying attention.
And being aware that the American security state is, in fact, not merely in the analysis of some liberty advocates, but as a matter of documented indisputable fact, routinely trampling on our Fourth Amendment rights whenever we engage in electronic communications is not a positive effect?
Maybe because Klein didn't have Greenwald? Who helped Snowden sound loud and clear?
But you're right - nothing new for any special services anywhere in the world. It's the US' populace whose nose was forced to smell the roses. Or shit. That's why the govt is mad.
Right but then the scandal isn't what Snowden and Klein said, its that the media suppressed it, which is what Trump and the Republicans have been pointing to since around 2006.
My mother was a teacher in a school in Glasgow and she spoke of an in-joke of the staff room who gave a nickname to The Janitor (an important position at a school in Scotland, pretty much the property manager), a man of few words who understood demarcation. The nickname was
I think someone coming along and proving it matters, not least to Mark Klein whose own reports received vindication and corroboration.
Do you think that the info Klein/Snowden revealed was of no importance? Or are you lamenting the public's apparent inability to turn heightened awareness into positive change?
Thats a good question. I don't think its of no importance, but I do think it is the same record that's been playing forever.
We've had so many revelations of spying over the years.
The Media, PA break-in, PRISM, ECHELON, etc etc.
The law says the government can't spy, but they have and will since there was something to spy on. Look at what they did to Trump in 2016 for god's sakes and tell me what Edward Snowden did had some positive effect other than a movie.
Serious question. People know the government spies now, thats the "positive" we are talking about? People have literally known this since the telegraph.
My issue is no one, ever, ever ever ever ever is held accountable and surely not at the highest levels.
But given what you say—"The law says the government can't spy, but they have and will since there was something to spy on"—what kind of change could you have hoped for? A change in law? No use. As you say, they ignore the law, and will continue to do so as long as they can keep their activities top secret. Get the intelligence agencies to voluntarily stop domestic surveillance? They have announced as much already and nobody with a brain believes them.
I will say this. As a result of the Snowden revelations, we saw the emergence of a vibrant market for privacy products, VPNs, privacy features on browsers, end to end encryption, etc. I'm not saying that now I have a VPN I'm immune from government snooping. That would be dumb. Nevertheless, to surveil a population that uses VPNs and other privacy products, intelligence agencies have to do a bit more work. E.g. they have to spend more on researching zero day vulnerabilities. Meanwhile the cost of hiring the best engineers has probably gone up, since fewer of them will now refuse a bigger paycheck in Northern California & buy the patriotic pitch that they're doing God's work fighting terrorists. I can think of several other things that are trickier (hence costlier) for domestic spies post-Snowden. Bottom line is the cost of domestic spying has gone up, which means—given the laws of economics—there's probably less of it going on. I think that's the best we can hope for. We're in the kind of war you win by making your opponent's activities more expensive.
And it wasn't a one-off price increase, btw. The Snowden revelations created an arms-race between spying tools and privacy tools that will put a never-ending upward pressure on the cost of internet snooping.
You're imagining a situation where the legacy media hasn't been reduced to the propaganda wing of the security state. But they have. If that's the point you're making, you'll get no argument from me.
By the way, *were* the American people whipped into a frenzy, or were they merely *portrayed* as such? I got the impression that only about 30%, or less, self-identified as engaged believers in Russiagate. I assumed they were almost all mad dog partisan Democrats, but the media, of course, defined them as the mainstream. In contrast, about the same percentage were unmovable Trump supporters, and probably now have suspicions about the fidelity of the 2020 election. But the media portrays *those* people as fringe Qanoners.
Since this article is about FB, this is what has me so frustrated.
The tech community told us for a decade + (while fundraising) how they supported free speech, a "voice for everyone", and "tolerance" and "integrity in journalism".
And yet when the elections started they turned into the same statists they complained about when it was a conservative media.
Yeah. My jury is out on whether big tech are enthusiastic statists or just doing the minimum necessary to respond to establishment nagging. I mean, if Google were really serious about tackling Trump supporters, they would have permanently banned Crowder, Mark Dice etc by now.
Mark Klein is not on the NASA kill list like Snowden is. Proving Klein's assertions was the CRITCAL aspect of this case. THAT Iconoclast, is the positive effect the Snowden revelations had, ACTUAL PROOF.
The problem is we had only 2, not 2000 telling us loud and clear what is happening. But on the other hand, none of this should have come as a surprise to anybody who ever opened any history book.
Yet the actual whistleblowers Assange and Snowden are facing life in prison, and in exile, respectively.
Let’s go Brandon.
Assange has now faced 7 years of embassy house-arrest plus 2 years of regular prison in the UK, all without a trial. Remember when the west used to be called the free world?
He exposed the sick underbelly of the FREE WORLD. Can't have that it disrupts the corruption and evil.
the United States of Hypocrisy...
And meanwhile....Edward Snowden is a happily married Russian citizen doing webcasts.
How quick are you on a Rubik's Cube genius?
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Bill, this will be my last response to you, because I don't find value in having discussions with you. You aren't looking for discussions, you are looking to browbeat anyone who disagrees with you, and without citing any evidence to support any of your claims other than your own opinions.
You are the Trump side of the lifer DNC coin and I dont want to waste any more time trying to educate you.
I'm firmly with William on this one, Icon. You've proved to be either completely dumb on the topic or deliberately choose to be obtuse to troll. Either way, Timmy is your guy. Stroke each other's Russia hating dildo as it suits you.
the two of you sound made for each other, I wish you all the best
I'll take a non-Nazi, non-racist, non-xenophobic type no matter how goofy they are any day, Icon. You're not in that category. Brownshirt is your type of a top. Brownnosing is the favorite activity of Timmy's.
Brown is what unites you. Throw those right arms of yours in the appropriate direction while looking in the mirror. What a sight!
ok karen
So you agree then? Awesome! Should be no hard feelings from now on.
You're now officially welcome to the brownshirt family. I'll think about the rank for you. For now Amy's your boss. Timmy's firmly underneath her. Between you two it's a tossup.
So what we see playing out here is an illustration of what I have often proposed: that consensus is always temporary. That means that our agreements within any consensus will always shift from agreement to disagreement within the terms of discourse as more perspectives are seen and experienced.
We are beings with many personas developing through time.
Our own individuality develops through time, just as we grow from children to adult, the adult evolves into different personas as we deal with changes in the world and our place in it.
Since the covid hysteria I have been having strange disturbing dreams of being inside of a strange building that I cannot find my way out of. Sometimes these are just weird houses, sometimes huge buildings with elevators and escalators. Often in these dreams there are strange alien like people attempting to lock me into a particular room...
I awake from these dreams baffled at the amazing detail and seeming reality of the images and feelings.
I had one of those dreams during a nap today. As I thought about it while making a pot of coffee, it struck me; these dreams have a lot to do with the real world at hand today, with the 'lockdowns' the masks, the threats of illness and danger of poisonous serums being mandated by the authorities.
These structures I am trapped in while dreaming are analogous to this strange new world paradigm of the "Pandemic".
Do nightmares end when the source is discovered? I doubt it....
Perhaps these are the End of Days...?
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There is an indispensable relationship between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. This lesson explores the universal principles outlined in the Declaration and their implications for the form of just government. The argument of the Declaration culminates in the colonists’ solemn pledge to each other of their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.
https://online.hillsdale.edu/courses/intro-to-the-constitution
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"I dont want to waste any more time trying to educate you."--Iconoclast
Hahaha!!! What utter arrogance to think you could educate me.
I don't care if you respond to my comments or not.
The first portion of you comment is total hypocrisy, projecting your own attitude as mine.
So go ahead ignore me, I find that a delightful idea.
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Hard-to-find 2020 election fraud stories and links
DATED: OCTOBER 1, 2021 BY SHARYL ATTKISSON
It is easy to find one side of the story when it comes to allegations of 2020 election fraud, but not so easy to get details regarding the other side of the story.
Below, you will find a variety of links to stories and information that is not being widely reported in some press circles. Too often, reporters and analysts are making incorrect claims and conclusions in their reporting, and are weighing in as if advocates rather than presenting factual information and differing views.
As you peruse the links below, it's left to you, as always, to assess the information and decide for yourself what to think. The goal here is simply to make accessible material that powerful interests are trying to censor.
Please note that depending on when you read this, some of the news links or material may be outdated so be sure and continue searching for your own information to stay current.
https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/10/hard-to-find-2020-election-fraud-stories-and-links/
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On trumped up charges, no less.
I remember when it was called that. I do not remember it ever being true.
“I am in chains. Don't touch my chains.”
― Kafka, Franz
The craziest CRAZIEST part to me is the only "celebrity" still yelling to help him is Pamela fucking Anderson.
Its like we live in the Twilight Zone
There are countless indicators that we live in the Twilight Zone....
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I find Heinlein's "Crazy Years" to more specifically apply...
Heinlein was a visionary indeed. But his dialog was crap, jejune BS, like he had never made love to a woman.
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Heinlein's dialog, while never his strength, evolved over time similarly to his world view. "Starship Troopers", while entertaining, is fascist, militarist apologia; by the time he wrote novels such as "Time Enough for Love" and "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" he was nearly a libertarian.
"Starship Troopers", while entertaining, is fascist, militarist apologia"--Sam Iamo
No it is not. You didn't get it, Heinlein's 'Starship Troopers' is a satirical pantomime of the military draft, the whole thing is a futuristic 'commercial' to join the military. The movie, being audiovisual gets this across even better than the book.
I would have thought someone as sophisticated as yourself would have appreciated that Sam.
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According to the Heinlein Society (heinleinsociety.org) and several other sources, ST (originally Starship Soldiresm in two installmets) was written as a negative reponse to proposalsfor the US to end nuclear testing. It was definitely not satire, unfortunately: Heinlein was quite serious about the concept of allowing voting franchise to only armed forces veterans. I once had a link to an interview with Heinlein from the 1980s or 90s in which he stipulated this (link long lost). Fortunately he extensively rethought his philosophy. Whether the movie is intended to lampoon those ideas, or merely ape the recently popular "meat cartoon" style of superhero movies, I cannot say. I will occasionally tape it, watch once, then delete as I find it amusing, even though ludicrous.
I blame Trump for that.
Trump kicked my dog one time.
And I don't even have a dog!
Omg, does it always have to be about Trump?
He's not wrong (I am right leaning and more pro Trump). Trump should have pardoned Assange and Snowden - the very victims of the deep state, spying, forever wars etc he had been complaining about for 5 years. That would have started the "drain the swamp" but he chickened out. I also blame Mitch McConnel and other RINOs for preventing Trump from doing it but the buck stops with Trump.
Right or wrong, important or not, another Greenwald article's comments is drowned in irrelevance.
Please, enlighten us, O Relevant Police Officer, Sir.
All of the comments here either quickly or eventually devolve into irrelevance.
At which point one is free to scroll on.
Key phrase: "one is free." One (Me!) is not free if one is not allowed to decide for oneself the point of irrelevancy. Pointing out this "point of irrelevancy" is always nothing more than an insubstantive call to censor.
Scroll on the time is now to stroll on! We gotta find the scheme of all our dreams and Scroll on! Do it Do it Do it now baby, Scroll on!!
And if we keep on strollin' the levies gonna break...
And if the levy breaks we'll have no place to stay.
That's why I'm going...goin' to Chicago.
Sorry but I can't take you.....
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Depending on the device used to read Substack comments, and the sorting chosen, scrolling past the irrelevant comments can involve more than trivial effort. I don't particularly want to see columnist moderation, but it would be nice if the technology was changed so that (for one example) readers could suppress specific commenters, or threads. Frankly, I am less than impressed with Substack's tech on a number of fronts.
Agreed. But I have become enamored of Substack's simplicity. I think it adds to a sense of non-censoring freedom, and therefore honesty and substance (is that where the "sub-" in Substack comes from?) in posting.
You want to pontificate at length, go ahead, You don't want to read said "garbage" (remember, YOU get to judge), scroll on.
Why would he pardon a dude hiding in Russia?
The Julian Assange stuff I agree with, with the caveat that I have NOT seen the government's 'evidence' of his attempts to help hack.
The US government pulled Snowden’s passport when he arrived in Russia.
I think Iconoclast's hard-on is maintained by his mentioning Russia. Especially in combination with Snowden.
I for one am happy for his (Icon's) lady.
Happy? All you sound like is jealous.
0 actual results.
The guy is still living in Russia, which in no way supports freedom for its people.
With those irrefutable facts, how can I not think there is something shady with what he did?
The Russians are just as "free" as you are.
Tell that to Alexei Navalny
2.3 million Yanks, caged. Most of them minorities. LOL
With this you've solidified your membership in the much storied Oompa-Loompa team with Willie Wonka at the head. Happy travels!
At least I'm not worried about your hard-on. Might be the real reason you're coming up with this shit.
WTF Iconoclast?!?!?
Why is Snowden stuck in Russia because the US nixed his passport indicate Snowden is shady? Obviously it is the US and NSA who are the goon squad here.
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Right on, WW. I don't think you will change his track, though. S/he appears to be stuck.
Glen wrote a whole article about how Snowden was deliberately trapped in Russia by the Obama admin. They did this so that you would think exactly what you do think..
And all of that required him to go there in the first place...for a layover.
Yeah right. I said the same shit to Glenn in that article and he responded with some lame bs as well.
Don't pretend Glenn ever answered you personally.
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Don't try to rewrite history based on your biased opinions Iconoclast.
Why don't you comment under your real name? Are you a criminal in hiding, a fucking Chinese agent? What? Who are you really?
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And here we come to the heart of the matter, aka Icon's beef.
Just a little while ago we agreed that he didn't reveal anything that special services around the world wouldn't know. Unless those do not include the Russian one then what else did he bring them?
And you maintain that was his plan all along? And Greenwald and Co got taken for a ride?
Why does that sound so far-fetched? We just saw HRC's lawyer charged for selling the media a big bullshit story. Why is that so preposterous to believe happened here?
For the record, I dont maintain anything other than
1. Edward told us nothing we didn't already know.
2. What Edward showed, got no actual changes.
3. Edward currently lives in arguably a less free country than the one he was 'whistleblowing'.
Given those three facts its hard not to think there is something shady about it all.
Let's keep going. If he brought something in there, why the fanfare? It'd be a lot easier for him to just be quiet.
"Given those three facts its hard not to think there is something shady about it all."--Iconoclast
No, they are not facts they are your opinions.
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Because, like assholes, everybody has one (an opinion).
Iconoclast doesn't just have an asshole, he is an asshole.
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Neat fact you actually start out as an asshole because we are deuterostomes :)
Can't be said enough Pete. "Happenstance", but tell that to Tailgunner Joe!
The HATE for Russia will only end in nuclear fire. And only then.
Russia-loving bullshit. Russia and Russians are to blame for Russian aggression, and all the results there-of.
You ARE aware that Russia was militarily attacked 3 times last century by present day members of NATO?
And they appear to be ramping up once more.
As for Timmy - I bet he's not. He is a certified moron with a proven Nazi-like racist rants. Iconoclast has joined him if not in word then in spirit.
With all his faults at least William never uttered anything close to racism or xenophobia. Maybe Peeper's influence is not for naught.
Timmy? I prefer Timmie. But you can call me Trigger.
There you go again Pete, with facts and stuff. Damn.
4 of my first 5 comments on CBC’s “ Controversial whistleblower Chelsea Manning fighting to be let into Canada” were deactivated…yet gobs of Americans were permitted to shout “No!”
Perhaps Trump should have granted Snowden a pardon for MOST of the offenses but not all of them. Snowden said he would be willing to face a prosecution in the US if it did not mean facing life imprisonment or a long imprisonment; and also if he would be allowed to present something like a "necessity" defense.
If Snowden was only liable for misdemeanor offenses (or for only the most minor felonies) such that he would face, at most, 1 year in prison, we could then judge Snowden's credibility by choosing to come home.
The national security organs tend to seek maximum punishment for people who embarrass them. I think Snowden committed crimes and should be prosecuted; but I don't think he should be sent to jail for life. I think a max sentence of 1 year would be appropriate. But look at the Jonathan Pollard case. Pollard leaked info to a US ally...Israel. Yet the NSA/FBI/CIA wanted Pollard in jail for life.
Yes, if exposing criminal wrongdoing at the highest levels of the USG is criminal, I suppose you have a slight argument.
Trump was too susceptible to being played by those around him. Not nearly so much as Biden and for different reasons (Biden has no choice as he is quite senile) and the people around Biden are far worse. However, I have no doubt that some of Trump's advisors were also in the employ of the so-called "Deep State", and that makes his pliability a liability (sorry, that just came right out of my fingertips unbiddened). It seems to be a dilemma - a political "insider" as President is corrupt by definition, but an outsider, even though he or she brings a fresh outlook and approach to office, is forced to rely to a large extent on "insiders", who are corrupt by definition...
"too susceptible to being played by those around him" - which is a euphemism for some plain common word, I'm afraid.
Would "hammer", "screwdriver" and "pliers" all be synonyms for the word you have in mind? Nevertheless, Trump was far less bad in that regard then Biden, Shrub, Carter, Ford, and probably Reagan, and less of a direct dick than Johnson, Nixon, Bush Elder, or Clinton (if I omitted any recent Oval Office occupants, it was an inadvertant oversight) so approbation should be applied proportionately.
""hammer", "screwdriver" and "pliers" all be synonyms" - close. I was thinking meat cleaver.
Ah. I thought you going for "tool"...
Actually, if we're serious, then no. It's much simpler - "gullible" which leads to "stupid".
And "stupid" is what all people are in certain individual areas to a certain degree. I'm not talking of clinically stupid. He, Trump, proved not to be smart politically, or he is corrupt there as most must be.
That's how I'd word your "too susceptible to being played by those around him".
Yesterday top video recommendation from youtube (I dont have an account and I block everything so its a flat geolocated push) was and I quote:
MSNBC - "Trump's campaign of lies threatening American democracy"
This is no joke here is the link you can see it.
https://www.msnbc.com/american-voices/watch/trump-s-campaign-of-lies-threatening-american-democracy-121995845516
MSNBC ... really Iconoclast?!?!? WTF?
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Are you fucking mentally disabled? Im pointing out they are still moaning about Trump a year after he lost.
And so is Trump Co. Much of inside-the-beltway is tit-for-tat, even though there is little equivalence.
TRUMP is the alpha and the omega.
Only an obsession for TDSers like you.
No, it can be about COVID
Sadly, yes. How else to divide the thread away from more the matters at hand? Classic diversion.
I blamed Trump for that until January 20, 2021, now I blame Joe Biden for it.
I've discussed it with the judges and this is an acceptable response as well. Carry on.
Ha! Good one, M. Iconoclast. (Or is it just "the judges" haven't weighed in yet?)
Why Finster?
You blame Trump? What a fool He came forward during the Obama regime and the entire establishment went insane It was the Obama regime during the Wikileaks uproar as well. Your assertion is preposterous.
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He could and should have pardoned both.
Not only could have pardoned both, but doing so would have been a splendid way of getting revenge on the security state apparatus that sought to undermine his first campaign for the White House, and undermined his Presidency and (with major help from Big Tech) his second campaign, all the while serving the constitutional order that is actually the foundation of any claim to greatness America actually has (thus putting some flesh on the bones of his campaign slogan). But... he didn't.
Why Trump deserves a good deal of the blame for Assange's imprisonment (one article out of many): https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london-shoot-out-inside-the-ci-as-secret-war-plans-against-wiki-leaks-090057786.html
Randall fucking Rose,
We all know that the CIA was out to bash Trump, and Pompeo was another member of the deep state that had infiltrated Trumps cabinet and took advantage of his confidence, just like Mike Pence and Gen. Milley. Trump was surrounded by traitors the whole 4 years of his administration, especially when the FBI was able to cut down Gen. Michael Flynn, who was Trumps first National Security Advisor.
Trump was not in the loop for the secret plan to kidnap Assange.
Yahoo News, is as reliable as the New York Time....not to be believed at all.
You need to listen to W Whitten — he know it all ;-))
He is especially an “expert” on socialism…
In mental asylum they allow access to social media as a therapy
Wow Petrov,
Now you are starting to act like that idiot russian_bot
I know who you and the other fucking Marxist are on this forum.
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At this point, Wonka, whenever you mention me you should put a TM next to it.
TM? For Total Marxist?
This after straining for how long, brownnose?
Right. I'm "brown-nosing" M. William. Or do you deign to think I wish for your approval? I think you are that deluded.
So? If you are a true patriot, why would you care that you might get bashed by the CIA? I am right leaning and more pro Trump. But Trump should have pardoned Assange and Snowden - the very victims of the deep state, spying, forever wars etc he had been complaining about for 5 years. That would have started the "drain the swamp" but he chickened out. I also blame Mitch McConnel and other RINOs for preventing Trump from doing it but the buck stops with Trump.
"If you are a true patriot, why would you care that you might get bashed by the CIA?--CNN
Trump was not only "bashed" by CIA, he was undercut and tricked by them and most of those who were surrounding him.
Look I wish he would have pardoned the both of them, but he didn't.
And now we gat a Joe Biden to fry, and a Great Reset agenda to get out from under.
Let's concentrate on that. That is the clear and present danger.
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Chelsea Manning has been pardoned.
Edward Snowden is still eating Borscht.
Given this "result-based-data" how do you defend Snowden's hiding in Russia "coincidentally". LOL.
Please inform yourself how and why Snowden ended up in Russia.
IT WAS JUST LUCKY I MEAN WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED HE WOULD BE IN THE ONLY COUNTRY WITH THE POWER TO TELL AMERICA FUCK YOU ABOUT EXTRADITION
GOOD THING HE WASNT WITH JULIAN IN THAT SUPER SAFE PLACE HE WAS HEADED INSTEAD OF WHERE HE COINCIDENTALLY GOT STUCK EH
Don't you think Assange would have liked borscht better than whatever he's fed in the comfortable English accommodation? Not far from where the Queen is? Must be so soothing for him to be where democracy was born.
Turns out CIA was afraid of such a development: "Scenarios included abducting Assange from the embassy, intercepting a Russian effort to extract him, or an outright assassination attempt."
https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/27/22696436/cia-kidnap-julian-assange-assassination-pompeo-trump
Bro....please please please never cite "the verge" ever again.
Im happy to discuss this further but the verge is such a terrible site I cannot even click that link.
Regarding Assange, Julian is an interesting case that is far different than Edwards.
Her sentence was commuted. Big difference.
You are correct. I am incorrect.
It is a big difference, thank you for pointing this out.
I may not have agree with much of Obama's politics but the Manning commutation sure plays a hell of a lot better than the Marc Rich pardon or the Kwame Kilpatrick one.
I don't need to defend Snowden for avoiding being extradited. But I do want to take this opportunity to bash you for holding Snowden in contempt as if you have the right to judge his actions.
He is a whistle blower who acted on his conscience when he knew it would be a danger to himself. Sane and thoughtful people find such selfless acts heroic. Only assholes such as yourself criticize such heroism.
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You remind me of the B Joel song."It's either madness (sic) or euphoria."
"Trump was not in the loop" - any loop he was in whatever? Or only ones convenient for you?
Finally, a substantive rhetorical question, M. russian!
Ah, the facts reported there are too inconvenient for you. Well, I posted it for people here who care about facts.
Again Randal fucking Rose, the facts are spun by mainstream outlets like Yahoo, just like the NY TIMES. People who understand that know that facts a malleable in the hands of spin doctors.
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What facts? There isn't a single linked piece of evidence to that article.
I just read it and maybe I missed "YAHOO NEWS" take on this but I don't see any evidence to support the media/Trump masturbation angle of CIA was out to get Snowden.
Was there a link to actual evidence somewhere in that story I missed?
‘I am not afraid, because this is the choice I’ve made’
Three weeks ago, Snowden made final preparations that resulted in last week’s series of blockbuster news stories. At the NSA office in Hawaii where he was working, he copied the last set of documents he intended to disclose.
He then advised his NSA supervisor that he needed to be away from work for “a couple of weeks” in order to receive treatment for epilepsy, a condition he learned he suffers from after a series of seizures last year.
As he packed his bags, he told his girlfriend that he had to be away for a few weeks, though he said he was vague about the reason. “That is not an uncommon occurrence for someone who has spent the last decade working in the intelligence world.”
On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since. He chose the city because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent”, and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.
In the three weeks since he arrived, he has been ensconced in a hotel room. “I’ve left the room maybe a total of three times during my entire stay,” he said. It is a plush hotel and, what with eating meals in his room too, he has run up big bills.
He is deeply worried about being spied on. He lines the door of his hotel room with pillows to prevent eavesdropping. He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.
Though that may sound like paranoia to some, Snowden has good reason for such fears. He worked in the US intelligence world for almost a decade. He knows that the biggest and most secretive surveillance organisation in America, the NSA, along with the most powerful government on the planet, is looking for him.
Since the disclosures began to emerge, he has watched television and monitored the internet, hearing all the threats and vows of prosecution emanating from Washington.
And he knows only too well the sophisticated technology available to them and how easy it will be for them to find him. The NSA police and other law enforcement officers have twice visited his home in Hawaii and already contacted his girlfriend, though he believes that may have been prompted by his absence from work, and not because of suspicions of any connection to the leaks.
“All my options are bad,” he said. The US could begin extradition proceedings against him, a potentially problematic, lengthy and unpredictable course for Washington. Or the Chinese government might whisk him away for questioning, viewing him as a useful source of information. Or he might end up being grabbed and bundled into a plane bound for US territory.
https://williamwhitten.substack.com/p/the-panoptic-maximum-security-state
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"Trump masturbation angle"--Iconoclast
Why are you so hung up on masturbation?
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Randall Rose logic = we can back Trump blame into anything.
Shit that happened before he was in office? - Trump's fault.
Shit that happened while he was in office? - Yep all Trump's fault if bad, all not his fault if good.
Shit that happened after he was in office? - Also Trump's fault.
This type of logic is called "politics as religion" and shows how stupid people can be.
I blame you for being a media sheeple.
If you were honest you would blame Trump for a lot of the Assange stuff but not the Snowden stuff.
Trump could have pardoned them but he didn't. He deserves blame for that.
Nonsense Wilcoxson, Trump was busy trying to defend himself for false impeachment charges in the last week of his term, which is when most pardons are issued. He had a lot on his hands with that witch Pelosi casting voodoo spells on him.
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He had four years to pardon them.
Trump had four years of constant persistent attacks trying to maintain his own equilibrium, you can't seem to recall all of that.
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He could have set aside some of his Twitter time to do it.
Give it a break Bernard.
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See...this is where you are a sycophantic shitlord.
You and I both know he issued a laundry list of shady pardons. FUCK OUTTA HERE.
Piss off.
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So you supported his Kwame Kilpatrick pardon? I've been asking this for weeks and you just keep deflecting it.
I do not care about it. I do not support it, I just don't care about it.
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how convenient
you rail against the swamp and corruption but when your guy does it its no big deal
this is what is wrong with "politics as a religion"
Look Iconoclast. It is a cost/benefit analysis. Trump pardoned someone you consider a bad actor, but the overall benefit of the Trump presidency overwhelms that one act that you disapprove of.
Your assertions of Trump supporters being a cult or a "religion" is absolute bullshit.
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And you can piss again Iconoclast.
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You whine like a Democrat.
piss off Needlhead.
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He was busy pardoning Kwame Kilpatrick a truly sympathetic individual if ever there was one give him a break the guy is a hardcore Trump supporter politically I mean come on.
If Randall fucking Rose were honest he would blame the Obama regime for both the witch hunt of Snowden and Assange..
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THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SACRIFICES
Says you MUST take these injections. It is MANDATED.
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I blame Obama for that.
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Obama would never take the risk. Trump, having been subjected to similar actions from unelected deep state actors, should have exposed them by pardoning Assange and Snowden and let the interviews and discussions begin. It would have been epic.
Assange and Snowden should’ve been pardoned by the outgoing Trump administration. One of the few things that Trump should’ve done and didn’t.
Can you imagine how they felt when the traitorous Bowe Bergdahl showed up arm in arm with Obama in the Rose Garden and playing kissy face? The left is better at pretending.
The Presidential pardon on the way out the door is one of the dirty little things about politics imo.
How is it OK to just throw out the conviction that was legally obtained because you are the President? The entire concept throws out due process just like a contempt of court case does. The fact that it comes from the top just validates the invalidation of law and order that people on all sides are tired of.
Cheered on by western media.
This is no longer ironic.
No, it is a tragedy created by the Biden regime and stupid fucking DemocRats who support this regime.
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I dont think Joe Biden created it. He looks like a dementia-addled child who is being run by Hillary Clinton via proxy Jake Sullivan.
Iconoclast, I said the Biden REGIME. Got it?
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Its really the Soros/Clinton regime tho
No, no longer ironic, but it will become a stock gag with the American right, the way calling Democrats, " 'Rats" did after they protested loudly about an ad with a text crawl having the last four letters of "Democrats" show briefly with nothing else on the screen.
Fuck Joe Biden and all you stupid ass DemocRats that voted for him.
It is your fault the the Biden regime is tearing this nation to pieces and all of our rights are being extinguished.
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Oh, come on, Whitten, the "RethugliCONs" are part of it, too! You should know by now that it's really a "one-party" system disguised as a "two-party" system. The globalist "Fourth Reich" Party and its neo-Nazis are made up of both sides of the political "divide (and conquer)". Most of their members may be "liberals", but many of them are "conservatives" too. They're ALL really neoliberals, including the neocons, and they ALL want absolute totalitarian control, and subjugation and enslavement, and eventual death, of all those who are not with them (most people; seven billion people), a part of globalist corporate-fascist, elitist cabal / regime (remember the Bilderburg Group, you think they're all "Democrats"?). People like the controllers of FOX are secretly neoliberals too. Even people like Putin are probably secretly globalists as well [otherwise he would have been assassinated, deposed and/or "gulagged" long ago---look at what happened to Noriega, Hussein, Kaddafi, etc., when they were no longer useful and supposedly became a "threat", and who used to work for "al CIAduh(!)"]. The globalists control almost every aspect of world government, turning it into global government (enslavement), and are doing so more and more. Heck, the Chinese government's top political and corporate leaders are probably globalists, too. But Oceania has to keep up the pretext of being at war with Eastasia, and then switching "enemies" over and over again, keeping the global(ist) endless war for obscene profiting going interminably. Wake up completely and stop being partisan, falling for the divide and conquer strategy.
Wolf, if you refuse to see the distinction between Trump's policies, and those of this criminal Biden regime, that is not my problem, it is yours.
The neocon Republicans of the Bush-Cheney regime, and the neoliberal Democrats of the Obama regime are one thing; your classical Hegelian synthesis.
However, the Trump Republicans are a brand new anima. as can be seen in the distinction between the RINO's like Liz Cheney and the Trump Republicans.
Trump is a Patriot to the Declaration and the Constitution. Biden is a traitor to the constitution and a confirmed globalist:
John Kerry reveals Biden's devotion to radical 'Great Reset' movement
In June, elites at important international institutions such as the World Economic Forum and the United Nations launched a far-reaching campaign to “reset” the global economy.
The plan involves dramatically increasing the power of government through expansive new social programs like the Green New Deal and using vast regulatory schemes and government programs to coerce corporations into supporting left-wing causes.
The two justifications for the proposal, which has been aptly named by its supporters the “Great Reset,” are the COVID-19 pandemic (the short-term justification) and the so-called “climate crisis” caused by global warming (the long-term justification).
According to the Great Reset’s supporters, the plan would fundamentally transform much of society. As World Economic Forum (WEF) head Klaus Schwab wrote back in June, “the world must act jointly and swiftly to revamp all aspects of our societies and economies, from education to social contracts and working conditions. Every country, from the United States to China, must participate, and every industry, from oil and gas to tech, must be transformed. In short, we need a ‘Great Reset’ of capitalism.”
[......]
This isn’t the first time Kerry has thrown his weight behind the Great Reset. At a June World Economic Forum virtual event, Kerry said the coronavirus pandemic was “a big moment” that opened the door for the Great Reset and that, “The World Economic Forum – the CEO capacity of the Forum – is really going to have to play a front and center role in refining the Great Reset to deal with climate change and inequity — all of which is being laid bare as a consequence of COVID-19.”
The evidence is now crystal clear about Biden’s connection to the Great Reset. He, John Kerry and the rest of the Biden administration are planning to bring the Great Reset to the United States. And if they are successful, the country will never be the same.
https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/528482-john-kerry-reveals-bidens-devotion-to-radical-great-reset-movement
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Trump's policy to pardon Kwame Kilpatrick, corrupt DNC politician, how do you draw that distinction?
That was OK because it was Trump but if the DNC does it fuck them?
Those of us who aren't sycophantic call both out for their bullshit. You ought to give it a try.
"Trump's policy to pardon Kwame Kilpatrick"--Iconoclast
That was not Trump's "policy" asshole. it was a fucking pardon. Your persistence on this point has become absurd.
You are acting like Kwame Kilpatrick is Satan himself.
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Spend 20 minutes learning about him and recognize that conceptually he stands for everything Trump "claimed" to be against.
There were many things I thought Trump was a huge hypocrite on, like appointing Devos, after bitching about the swamp, but at least she ostensibly supported his politics.
Kilpatrick represents everything wrong with politics. Trump pardoning him to me is the equivalent to him getting a Nazi tattoo if I was a jew. Its a fucking dealbreaker and a non-starter.
On January 20, 2021, President Donald Trump commuted Kilpatrick's sentence with less than 12 hours remaining before he was due to leave office.[163] The White House statement on the pardoning of Kilpatrick reads: "Mr. Kilpatrick has served approximately 7 years in prison for his role in a racketeering and bribery scheme while he held public office. During his incarceration, Mr. Kilpatrick has taught public speaking classes and has led Bible Study groups with his fellow inmates."[163] President Trump's commutation allowed Kilpatrick to gain release 20 years early, though it did not vacate his conviction.[8] The commutation left in place the almost $4.8 million in restitution and the three-year probation.[164] Kilpatrick will not be able to run for office in Michigan until 2033 as a felon is excluded from politics for 20 years after conviction under Michigan law.[165]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick
Kilpatrick is a criminal, no doubt, But he did spend time in prison.
I know you are utterly outraged by this Iconoclast.
But I simply don't give a shit. I now you don't like that I don't give a shit...AND on top of that I don't give a shit that you don't like that I don't give a shit.
Fuck it man, I am not going to argue about this trivial damned thing anymore.
FINI
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Of course I distinguish between the policies of TrumpCON and those of the "al CIAduh(!)" Manchurian candidate, "Can't-aBide(n)-him-CON's" regime! But they're still BOTH evil, vile people. TrumpCON is no more a true patriot to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution than Biden and his regime. Yes, Trump sounded good in much of the lead-up to 2016 when he was campaigning, and I agreed with much of what he purported to believe, as many non-"RethugliCONs" and non-"conservatives" did; but like ClintonCON, ObamaCON and BidenCON, and all of the other "al CIAduh(!)"-controlled puppets like them, he was lying through is teeth about most of it. If you can't see that, which obviously you can't, that is your problem, not mine.
You don't have to keep spamming about the "Great Reset" movement. I've seen your many posts on the topic, and I agree that it exists and that it is close to perpetrating its coup d'gras on humanity, etc., so you also don't need to tell me that. I know that Biden is part of it. Yet, a Godless, self-aggrandizing sicko worshiper of money and hording it, endless liar, extremely-phony, unreality showboater, egotist lover of being hero-worshiped, and so on, is NOT a "savior".
"Hypothetically-questioning", when does Trump give glory to God, when does he glorify the One and Only True God and Jesus the Christ, rather than glorifying money, the root of all evil? Answer? He doesn't. Why? Because he's an extremely-evil, vile Satanist.
Heck, when do YOU give ANY glory to God? I've never seen, in all of your endless spamming, your giving one iota of glory to God. You probably claim to be a "Christian"; but, if so, all you are is nothing but a counterfeit "Christian" like all professed-"Christians".
God says in His Word(s) to "know (people) by their fruits"; and, for all you have right, you glorify yourself. and sow real hatred, the fruits of Satan, not God. Now, tear me a new a-hole, as you've done to so many people here and elsewhere, I don't give a damn.
'Few people have the imagination for reality."--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Oh, believe me, I have the (True) Imagination for (True) Reality since I have the Biblical Gift of Discernment. You, on the other hand, have neither. You, like so many others, have a great deal correct, and you think you're completely awake, but clearly you are not. Let's agree to disagree. (ONLY True) Peace (through the Prince of Peace, Jesus the Christ) out.
"Oh, believe me,"--Wolf
Why? You say because you "have the Biblical Gift of have the Biblical Gift of Discernment.
I say that the ability of 'Discernment' is a learned ability, through study, and maturity dependent on each individual's innate capacity, plus the environmental situations of that individual's experiences.
If Wolf were born in the Middle East, say Saudi Arabia, the likelihood would be that he would be a Muslim and he would claim that he has the Quran's Gift of Discernment. And of course there are many variations on this theme that could be proposed.
Excuse me for approaching this issue in a rational manner. Although I do hold firm spiritual conceptualizations, I will not propagate those as a basis for my assertions. But I will refer to the Cartesian Dilemma in passing. And remind that secular language is appropriate for a mixed society of varied belief systems.
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What a bunch of gobbletyguk.
I don't have to tear you a new asshole' Wolf, because it doesn't matter to me what you think about Trump. You are free to have any opinions you like.
I think your contention that Trump is "an extremely-evil, vile Satanist," is preposterous. And such an assertion makes you seem like a religious fanatic. If that widens your asshole unbearably I am very sorry.
Wow I never thought you would go off on me like that. Everyone is full of surprises these days. Must be the Season of the Witch.
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Clearly, if Jesus the Christ were walking the Earth today as a man, you would think him a "religious fanatic", too. I was simply correcting what you said, and I did not mean for it to come off as "go(ing) off on (you)".
Certitude is Is not faith, it is dogma.
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And that is nothing but Satanically indoctrinated into you bullshit, mo-fu.
WHAT DID SNOWDEN BLOW THE WHISTLE ON THAT MARK KLEIN HADNT ALREADY BLOWN IT ON PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ACTUAL POSITIVE RESULTS OTHER THAN "AWARENESS" EDWARD SNOWDEN GAVE US.
Your keyboard is stuck in all caps — bring it for repair
Im yelling because in 2 years on this board no one can answer me as to what positive effect the Snowden revelations had other than "Awareness".
Nothing he told us Mark Klein hadn't already told us years ago. The only difference is Edward proved that what Mark had alleged years earlier was true.
https://www.wired.com/2006/01/att-sued-over-nsa-eavesdropping/
Positive effect = more widespread awareness of GG. A good start at waking some folks up.
I liked your post only because every journey begins with a single step.
Exactly. Wasn’t trying to be argumentative, but it seemed like a net positive, if only a start.
You mean the awareness he got from that incident? That then caused Pierre to create a company with him? That he then had to quit when he realized Pierre was just as much of a shitlord and was happy to torpedo stories?
Its almost like the Snowden story was weaponized just like a lot of others.
Mark Klein is not on the NASA kill list like Snowden is. Proving Klein's assertions was the CRITCAL aspect of this case. THAT Iconoclast, is the positive effect the Snowden revelations had, ACTUAL PROOF.
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Do you honestly think it was any coincidence that all of that information "leaked" after the telecoms were granted immunity or do you think that was also "just dumb luck".
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/10/supreme-court-telecoms-win-immunity
They only released this information because they knew no one would ever get in trouble for it. And did anyone? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE.
Sure Edward proved what Mark alleged, but the Supreme Court could have demanded that years before in Hepting v AT&T. They chose not to so Edward let it out anyways and the big results and changes of that were.....
FUCKING NOTHING
Yeah, I know. But we're talking about opportunistic deployment of a whistleblower as lever to pry more censorship into FB. If you can't stomach that without shouting about your pwn pet interests, GYOFB.
Its the exact same scenario.
They (whoever it may be) get a person to impeach their enemy's credibility in some way.
I mean does a single person on this board think Blumenthal is an honest dude?
Lets also all take a moment to point out how this was stolen corporate information that the mainstream media was happy to talk about unlike the "stolen" Hunter Biden laptop which was blacklisted.
If you think you are woke and dont see this FB thing as an attempt to control the media (as Glenn's entire article points out), you aren't paying attention.
And being aware that the American security state is, in fact, not merely in the analysis of some liberty advocates, but as a matter of documented indisputable fact, routinely trampling on our Fourth Amendment rights whenever we engage in electronic communications is not a positive effect?
The population has known about that since the telegraph.
Maybe because Klein didn't have Greenwald? Who helped Snowden sound loud and clear?
But you're right - nothing new for any special services anywhere in the world. It's the US' populace whose nose was forced to smell the roses. Or shit. That's why the govt is mad.
Unquestionably I think Glenn did the majority of the heavy lifting bringing the "awareness" we are talking about.
Its unfortunate that he seems to be one of the few actual journalists wanting us to start from a place of truth, regardless of politics.
"Awareness" for the populace is real. Its effectiveness can certainly be argued about.
Right but then the scandal isn't what Snowden and Klein said, its that the media suppressed it, which is what Trump and the Republicans have been pointing to since around 2006.
My mother was a teacher in a school in Glasgow and she spoke of an in-joke of the staff room who gave a nickname to The Janitor (an important position at a school in Scotland, pretty much the property manager), a man of few words who understood demarcation. The nickname was
Snomajobty
I think someone coming along and proving it matters, not least to Mark Klein whose own reports received vindication and corroboration.
Do you think that the info Klein/Snowden revealed was of no importance? Or are you lamenting the public's apparent inability to turn heightened awareness into positive change?
Thats a good question. I don't think its of no importance, but I do think it is the same record that's been playing forever.
We've had so many revelations of spying over the years.
The Media, PA break-in, PRISM, ECHELON, etc etc.
The law says the government can't spy, but they have and will since there was something to spy on. Look at what they did to Trump in 2016 for god's sakes and tell me what Edward Snowden did had some positive effect other than a movie.
Serious question. People know the government spies now, thats the "positive" we are talking about? People have literally known this since the telegraph.
My issue is no one, ever, ever ever ever ever is held accountable and surely not at the highest levels.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/10/supreme-court-telecoms-win-immunity
But given what you say—"The law says the government can't spy, but they have and will since there was something to spy on"—what kind of change could you have hoped for? A change in law? No use. As you say, they ignore the law, and will continue to do so as long as they can keep their activities top secret. Get the intelligence agencies to voluntarily stop domestic surveillance? They have announced as much already and nobody with a brain believes them.
I will say this. As a result of the Snowden revelations, we saw the emergence of a vibrant market for privacy products, VPNs, privacy features on browsers, end to end encryption, etc. I'm not saying that now I have a VPN I'm immune from government snooping. That would be dumb. Nevertheless, to surveil a population that uses VPNs and other privacy products, intelligence agencies have to do a bit more work. E.g. they have to spend more on researching zero day vulnerabilities. Meanwhile the cost of hiring the best engineers has probably gone up, since fewer of them will now refuse a bigger paycheck in Northern California & buy the patriotic pitch that they're doing God's work fighting terrorists. I can think of several other things that are trickier (hence costlier) for domestic spies post-Snowden. Bottom line is the cost of domestic spying has gone up, which means—given the laws of economics—there's probably less of it going on. I think that's the best we can hope for. We're in the kind of war you win by making your opponent's activities more expensive.
And it wasn't a one-off price increase, btw. The Snowden revelations created an arms-race between spying tools and privacy tools that will put a never-ending upward pressure on the cost of internet snooping.
Imagine if the American population had been whipped into a frenzy about that sort of thing instead of the Trump is a Russian lie we endured for years.
You're imagining a situation where the legacy media hasn't been reduced to the propaganda wing of the security state. But they have. If that's the point you're making, you'll get no argument from me.
By the way, *were* the American people whipped into a frenzy, or were they merely *portrayed* as such? I got the impression that only about 30%, or less, self-identified as engaged believers in Russiagate. I assumed they were almost all mad dog partisan Democrats, but the media, of course, defined them as the mainstream. In contrast, about the same percentage were unmovable Trump supporters, and probably now have suspicions about the fidelity of the 2020 election. But the media portrays *those* people as fringe Qanoners.
Since this article is about FB, this is what has me so frustrated.
The tech community told us for a decade + (while fundraising) how they supported free speech, a "voice for everyone", and "tolerance" and "integrity in journalism".
And yet when the elections started they turned into the same statists they complained about when it was a conservative media.
Yeah. My jury is out on whether big tech are enthusiastic statists or just doing the minimum necessary to respond to establishment nagging. I mean, if Google were really serious about tackling Trump supporters, they would have permanently banned Crowder, Mark Dice etc by now.
Mark Klein is not on the NASA kill list like Snowden is. Proving Klein's assertions was the CRITCAL aspect of this case. THAT Iconoclast, is the positive effect the Snowden revelations had, ACTUAL PROOF.
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The problem is we had only 2, not 2000 telling us loud and clear what is happening. But on the other hand, none of this should have come as a surprise to anybody who ever opened any history book.
"who ever opened any history book" - those are few and can be easily disregarded.
Check that. Turns out the whole western population willingly disregards itself as not much came out of the whole brouhaha.
anything to help: https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks