The term "anti-vax" has expanded so widely that even vaccine advocates, such as Corbyn and trade unions, are now included by virtue of defending bodily autonomy.
But seeing these vaccines rushed to market, conflated as classical vaccines (they aren't); seeing them become extraordinarily leaky, requiring constant boosters for the rest of eternity; seeing them pushed on children (who have nearly zero risk from the virus); seeing the very real issues around cardiomyopathy being brushed away; seeing otherwise perfectly reasonable (and vaccinated) people demand that others vaccinated to protect their own health (if you're vaccinated, why do you care?); and seeing any opposition squashed and vilified... Yeah, call me whatever names, but the "science" I'm seeing applied has nothing to do with what I was trained in as actual science.
New "general rule"... whenever someone invokes "science", e.g., "science gave us these vaccines" it's akin to "god works in mysterious ways". Chances are near 100% that the Dunning Krugerite in question has no idea what the "science" is behind their chest beating and coat-tail riding superiority complex.
I find many people who claim to “believe in science” in reality believe in “scientism”, a pseudoreligious cult in which scientists are treated as priests privy to some knowledge not accessible to the common person — see, e.g,, the cult of Fauci. But in reality, this is the opposite of science — if the data contradicts the pronouncements of Fauci (or any other scientist), then the truth is in the data.
LOL! Science is democratic in that anyone can participate. All they need do is develop the competency. All of you anti-science types are just too lazy or stupid to get the required education, choosing the lazy way out with crap like what you just posted.
There is are literally THOUSANDS of scientists doctors and nurses ( btw, Phd level educated ppl,) who are debating the studies, or lack of studies in many cases, calling out the obvious suppression of anyone questioning this vaccine rollout, who are against the mandates and who have clinical experience with successful early treatments that are being censored deplatformed and canceled. Science should always remain open to debate and scrutiny. When science ceases to encourage honest debate it’s not science, it’s propaganda.
Jeffrey, just stop. Your fingers-in-ears denials about even the most basic of realities suggests that your capacity for critical thinking is on par with that of a footstool. You're embarrassing yourself.
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
I need listen no further to your shilling. Anyone not living under a rock for the past 2 years KNOWS that massive censoring of any evidence negative to mass vaccination has been CENSORED. In my own area all papers refused to even allow comments citing OFFICIAL data on adverse events. I try to be civil in discussions but not with TROLLS. If you wanted to make the weak point that the censoring is justified by public interest you would be wrong but not a TROLL. When you deny reality you identify your species as TROLL. Two words for you - one rhymes with a well known water fowl the other is a preposition. If you are even bright enough to decode that. TROLL.
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
LOL! Science is based on evidence and the research evidence indicated that the mRNA could provide the means to setup the immune system to fight future infections. there are not two sides to this issue.
No troll, but I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
The fact you used the qualifier "could" means that there definitely are many sides to this story. Nobody knows with any certainty about the long-term effects of these injections. Nobody knows the mRNA injection efficacy over the longer term and all evidence points to the fact that their efficacy wanes. We (as in humanity) are still gathering the evidence and anyone that claims the matter is settled is deluded.
Could means that some people's immune systems do not do what most people's do. Thee are not two sides to this issue.
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
Where's a downvote button when you need one. You're as offensive as anyone spouting pejoratives; STFU your damned self.
See? Doesn't that feel nice?
You're not here to persuade or otherwise have a fruitful conversation like most of us, you're here to attack people you don't agree with and, sorry, humanity is NOT served by that, no matter how much it gets your rocks off.
Doesn`t bother me one bit. The pejorative is justified or not. My reasoning for its use is set out (JB is clearly a troll as it denies reality). What is yours ?
Oh, that book must be good as RFK Jr. is an idiot. I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
"truth is in the data" if it was collected and analyzed properly.
As Samuel Clemmens once said, "There's lies, there's damned lies, and there there's statistics." And, as computer programmers would remind us: "Garbage in, garbage out."
As a scientist myself, I'm always looking for errors in data collection - did we get enough, is it the right kind of data to address what we hope to learn? Etc. And, errors in analysis are pervasive, and pretty much everyone is prone to them, so you have to teach yourself to ignore your hunches and biases most of the time and just go with a methodical procedure, like a pilot's checklist when flying a plane - and use your hunches to investigate possibilities you hadn't considered to analyze novel aspects. And, again, have someone else double-check your work! ...As they say in the writing field, "EVERYONE needs a good editor!" (Even Glenn!)
Same. Except I believe the vaccine schedule in the United States is now up to about 72 shots for children. This is absurd. There is clearly a profit driven motive going on. Bill Gates himself said he attributed the bulk of his wealth to the vaccines. I don’t think people would have such a problem if it weren’t for the obvious big Pharma cabal regulatory capture of our NIH American Medical Association CDC and world health organization. No one can deny this. Big Pharma is running the show, funding the so-called studies, lining the pockets of the corrupt Congress people who refuse to stand up. Fauci Tedros Daszak and all the others who have conflicts of interests as they are patent holders of the treatments being pushed like Remdesivir and also the vaccines being brought to market. All the evidence is there. People need only to connect the dots. It is so outrageous there are no words to describe it.
The reasoning to demand or at least deeply wish for others to get vaccinated comes from old wisdom passed down from at least my parents' generation. A population with a high vaccine rate (early predictions with the sarscov2 vaccine were 70%) can stop community spread. There are are always people who, for medical reasons, cannot get vaccines. If community spread can be stopped, and even better, the virus eliminated, those more vulnerable people can be protected. Sadly, I am seeing that this set of vaccines doesn't seem to be measuring up in ability to prevent spread, because people with breakthrough cases are still contagious. Perhaps at a higher vaccination rate... but I've been watching those places with a 70% vaccination rate and they are still having a lot of trouble with the virus spreading, as far as I can tell.
Stopping community spread is not an option with these vaccines. In reality, and as a top CDC official has admitted, they reduce but do not eliminate infection (Britain had over 5000 vaccinated people DIE in a month), and once infected, they do not prevent - or apparently even reduce - further spread. They may reduce the vaccinated person's chances of severe disease. Nice for them, but not a public health measure. It may even increase spread, by making more asymptomatic spreaders.
How would that stop community spread? These vaccines are nonsterilizing, they don’t stop people from spreading the virus, including to other vaccinated people. They just reduce the symptoms.
Poor Jeff hasn’t looked at the recent data showing higher vax rate, more cases. If they were anywhere close to effective enough to end the pandemic, the evidence would be obvious that they are stopping transmission. They aren’t, and it’s not close.
Vaccines don't need to be sterilizing to be effective at ending a pandemic, all they need to do is to reduce illness to a level that the health system can care for the worst cases without negatively affecting others.
What a rude and obnoxious comment. If you are such an expert, you should be able to draw the common sense conclusion that when people are saying "prevent infection" in this context, they really mean "prevent the spread of infection." How many hours have you spent in this comment section?
LOL! What is so rude about what I posted? I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
These vaccines may be even worse. The vaccinated get infected and for a period have no symptoms as they shed to others. We can only hope the vaccines do not result in damage to the innate immune system. We who are vaccinated are now quite worried after what we have done to ourselves. Omicron now seems to be affecting us!
Pity the textbooks aren't keeping up with the flood of news reports. The vaccine protects the individual against severe illness but not society.
LOL! I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
Pity you who doesn't know just how little you understand to post such stupid comments.
"The vaccinated get infected and for a period have no symptoms as they shed to others."
Just like the unvaccinated. However, because most people who took one of the three vaccines (here talking USA only) will have a good immune response immediately, their infectious period is substantially shorter - the exact amount is still under study but it's likely between, early data shows, 5X and 10X faster.
"We can only hope the vaccines do not result in damage to the innate immune system."
Incorrect; we can also know that said damage is impossible, given how they function. Because they have "artificially taught" the immune system how to recognize this pathogen, the "innate immune system" won't create its own response, since it's already responding, but beyond that, the mRNA provided isn't able to do any damage because what it does is encode what's sometimes called the or a "key" (and some even refer to it as a "flag" protein that will bond with a part of the virus - different mRNA vaccines can lock onto different parts of the target, but I understand that most virologists consider going after the particular coat protein called the spike is the best target. And so, the appropriate cells in your existing immune system simply produce this red-flag protein that will bond with a target and thereby identify for the immune system what to attack.
We don't have to worry about harming our "innate immune systems," though it would be nice if there was a way short of live infection for us to teach our bodies to recognize the virus as the body may recognize more of the coat proteins and thus make the immune response even stronger.
I was given heart by this recent JAMA article https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2787447 which suggests in a small study that the re-infected gain a better immunity. But we still await larger analyses with great hope.
The issue is that vaccination sets up one's immune system to fight future infections and thus reduces the risk of severe illness and thus the risk of being contagious is reduced.
I suggest that you listen to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), listen to Vincent Racaniello's virology lectures and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube, they are actual college lectures, and watch Vincent's live streams on Wednesday evenings, see his youtube channel. All of these issues are covered with real science, good, bad and indifferent and you can post questions to him.
The information in the Harvard study was already known; the vaccinated clear the virus marginally faster than the unvaxxed (though peak viral production is roughly the same in both groups). The problem is that in real world scenarios, this shorter duration of viral shedding has little to no appreciable impact on community spread. That's shown in a study in The Lancet Infectious Diseases (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext) and by the fact that almost no correlation has between vaccination levels and spread in areas such as U.S. counties and countries around the world (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10654-021-00808-7).
Highly vaxxed states, such as those in New England, have experienced case surges even as low-vaxxed India and Africa have extremely manageable spread, relatively speaking.
Confounded data. Try more recent incremental data. The first four months of 2021 was when the vaccines we just beginning their rollout. Then in New England we were shocked to discover the vaccinated were carrying the virus and infecting others. Naked bath parties even for the vaccinated aren't wise, but they imagined they were safe.
And the vaccinated needed no medical care! What a fucking surprise!
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
About vaccinated people demanding vaccination mandates, it's not about them, it's about protecting the unvaccinated and helping reduce the economic burdens that the stupid anti-vaxxers bring down on everyone.
These "economic burdens" are a propagandized fiction, besides the fact that a free society does not force supposedly cost saving medical procedures on people as if they were some piece of equipment. I pay into the medical system every day and have used it very rarely, and I've not been in a hospital for anything. For what it's worth, I'm "fully" "vaccinated" by last summer's definition, but I've collected a list of fun new health issues in the time since my second shot. Related? Who knows! Certainly no one's looking into it. I can live with this, getting the shots was my own decision (under social pressure from friends and family, ofc), prior to the mandates and passports. But I would not get these shots in the current environment specifically because it would not be my decision, and I'm not interested in any boosters.
Coercing medical procedures is wrong and it needs to stop now. I can't believe we even have to say this.
LOL! The economics burdens due to the idiots who politicized the pandemic are very real.
Coercing vaccinations is right and would have worked had it been done earlier. Now I think that the antivaxxers should be forced to deal with their decision and be a lower priority to others who need health care. if they die, so much the better.
Thank you for being brave enough to admit out loud you’re for the gassing of the vermin, Jeff. Look how little time it took for the propagandists to convert you into a sociopath. Not nearly as long as it took many Germans to sign on to the Nazi propaganda about the disease-spreading Jews.
No one will accuse you and your fellow Stockholm Syndrome sufferers of using science, Jeff. Try shocking us for once and providing your peer-reviewed sources (sans conflicts of interest) for the lies you’re spreading on behalf of your BigPharma captors.
“The forest kept shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe. For the axe was clever and convinced them that since its handle was wood it was one of them.” —Anonymous
😂 Still have that mirror I gave you earlier? Might as well keep it since everything you say applies to yourself.
I have provided peer-reviewed evidence for every point I’ve made. You have slung ad hominem attacks and juvenile “nuh-uh,” “yuh-huh” retorts.
I see you’re not up to handling a mature debate based on scientific evidence, and I’ve wasted enough time on you already, so fare thee well and enjoy your brief life of everlasting boosters!
Conspiracies exist. That's why numerous laws (such as RICO) exist to deal with them.
The issue lies not in the theorizing, per se. The task is to determine which of the theories start with reasonable hypotheses based on *the evidence at hand*, and warrant further examination to determine if they are true or false.
Easy, you just typed your post, same way. Getting rid of these anti-science, denier types is a good thing. They do it to themselves because they are too stupid and are a big problem in every society in which they thrive.
So you want people who you think are stupid to die? Killing off the feeble minded was precisely the goal of the eugenics movement. Are you understanding yet why you look like a sociopath?
Has led to what? That it's a good thing that those who refuse to get vaccinated for the greater good may die? It's their doing, they deserve what they get as they have the opportunity to actually educate themselves with facts but refuse to. I've got nothing to do with their fate, they do.
That you think that way indicates that you're broken and a good example of the anti-science, anti-reality rot in the US. People like yourself are the direct cause of the 750,000 Covid-19 deaths in the US.
Yours is a stunningly stupid comment. It involves a conceit that is hard to fathom. To accuse folks who question whether to take a vaccine as being "a direct cause of the 750,000 Covid deaths" is really evidence of your own polemical irrationality. To say nothing of a stunning level of conceit.
You are the cause. If not for the likes of you and your ilk, more people would not have to deal with the anti-science, anti reality noise that has caused so much suffering and death.
Here’s a mirror, Jeff, since you’re talking about yourself.
And those 750,000 deaths? Your beloved Fauci and his corrupt drug cartel caused those by intentionally smearing and suppressing life-saving early treatment protocols and employing murderous drugs like Remdesivir and intubation/ventilation.
You’re mad at the wrong people. If you are courageous enough to challenge your propaganda-programmed cult beliefs, read “The Real Anthony Fauci” and get back to us with counterarguments to anything you dispute in there.
Oh, I see you’re a TDS sufferer, too. That explains how easily you’ve been manipulated into believing megacorporate lies.
Seriously, Jeff, this is getting exhausting trying to disenchant you of all of the propaganda you’ve swallowed. Please save me the trouble and dispel all of your delusions by reading “The Real Anthony Fauci.” I dare you.
Are you willing to pay those you contemptuously call "anti-vaxxers" when they are critically injured or die as a result of the vaccine? Will those economic burdens be shared? You are blindly allegiant to the Cult of Fauci, and have confused religion and science.
If these are so safe, why did big pharma demand full liability protection? Why do they refuse to sell the vaccines in countries that refuse to grant that protection?
Can you not sense the absurdity of big pharma claiming total safety while refusing to accept any liability for deaths and injuries?
Or the absurdity of claiming long-term safety of a product using new technology and no track record other than current data?
What are your long-term safety claims based on? Inferred from the history of approved vaccines using different technology, while ignoring all the failed attempts including the decades the entire industry could not develop one for coronavirus?
What about their risk from severe Covid-19? No, the vaccines are proven safe and effective. There is no point to any anti-vaxxer argument, period. The testing has already indicated what to watch out for.
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have experienced negative side effect - many of them quite severe and many deadly. I'm sure you believe the sudden skyrocketing of myocarditis in very healthy young athletes is just a coincidence.
Vaccines should be limited to those at high risk. Those populations are well known. All others have been needlessly exposed to risk - including me.
In addition, we won't know the long term effects of this brand new, never before tried, experimental, approach to vaccines (mrna) for many years.
So all you can reasonably claim is that IN THE SHORT TERM (less than one year) the vaccines are safe.
They are not safe in the short term. The URF derived from comparing VAERS data to leaked Medicare data indicates VAERS is under-reported by a factor of 44 rather than Steve Kirsch's earlier estimate of 41. Given that there are well over 9000 deaths reported in VAERS, that means 43 times that number should have been reported but weren't, a total of about 400,000. Granted that not all of those were actually caused by the vaccines, it's still a huge number and explains the jump in all cause mortality for 2021 reported by CDC. It's not difficult to hide huge numbers of deaths in a population of 330,000,000.
The vaccines are very safe as proven by the number of vaccines given and the number of problems reported in VAERS, none of which has been proven to be due to the vaccine as stated on the VAERS site. However, even if some deaths are due to the vaccine the risk of Covid-19 is far, far greater.
"Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have experienced negative side effect - many of them quite severe and many deadly."
I've looked into this and found that ALL the analyses that make this claim ones I either stumbled across on my own (not many) or the ones people have pointed me to (most) fail to properly evaluate against the background and filter out the instances where there was a report but it was then show to have no causal type relationship to the vaccine under study - and when I say no causal relationship, I mean _completely_ not related.
You mean the CDC isn't analyzing the VAERS data...at all? What are they hiding?
See my post above: VAERS to VAERS; there have been more deaths and adverse reactions in one year, with one set of vaccines, than for ALL vaccines ... since 1986, when it was started. That automatically corrects for the deficiencies of VAERS.
And a footnote: going through this depressing string, it's pretty obvious that, on the whole, it's the "anti-scientific" "anti'vaxxers" posting data, not the vaxxers. You're an exception of sorts. And since you give no source nor any data, we have to take your argument on faith.
In other words - didn't reach the conclusion I wanted...
I'm sure it is just one big coincidence that, for example, myocarditis just happens to show up shortly after a lot of athletes get their jab. Even the Surgeon General of the US Military has admitted that more people will die from myocarditis over the next five years than will be saved by the vaccine.
You are being willfully blind, although I do hope that when you get "boosted" you don't suffer the same fate as so many others.
None of the reported side effects are verified to have been caused by the vaccines, this is stated on the VAERS site. However, reporting does provide a view into potential problems. This is a good thing.
Just understand that Covid-19 has killed over 800,000 Americans! Not one death has been proven to have been caused by the vaccines. However, if a few deaths are proven, the risk of Covid-19 is far, far greater as over hundreds of millions of vaccinations have been administered!
I’ll give you this, Jeff, you are impervious to evidence! Hats off to you for your obdurate obeisance to BigPharma propaganda.
“None of the reported side effects are verified to have been caused by the vaccines, this is stated on the VAERS site. However, reporting does provide a view into potential problems. This is a good thing.”
Hill’s Criteria of Causality has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt regarding the fatal and injurious consequences of these experimental injections. Here’s one video to get you up to speed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4MViwU3XOo
“Just understand that Covid-19 has killed over 800,000 Americans!”
If you are indeed a human being and not a pharma-funded bot, then please for the love of humanity get your head out of your propaganda and start waking up to the fact that you are defending the very monsters who pose the greatest threat to freedom and the survival of the human species in history.
Well, that's a sensible policy, but it's not what we're being told. We're told "it's to protect others", which is simply not true. The vaccines don't protect against infection.
And the other side of it is we have treatments now for Covid, such as monoclonal antibodies, which are amazingly effective if given early. So it's not all about protection. It's about Pfizer talking points.
"Protecting others" is true. While vaccines do not prevent infections they do prevent severe illness and that results in less virion replication and thus less spread.
Understand that vaccines set up the immune system t fight future infections and cost about $20/dose while monoclonal antibodies do not and cost any where from $2,000 to $5,000/dose. They're as effective as your own antibodies but they aren't vaccines!
B-I-N-G-O! So when are you going to pry your eyes open?
BTW, why don’t you look up the lot numbers for your injections and see if they’re among the 5% of toxic batches responsible for 90% of the adverse reactions? Then you can start focusing on mitigating your potential adverse reactions rather than fighting those who are trying to save people like you from risking their lives and health for a fraudulent narrative and totalitarian aims: http://howbad.info/ (more context here: https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/uk-scientist-reveals-bombshell-data)
I don't smoke and I don't drink, yet I pay the economic burden of those that do. I don't have children yet pay the economic burden of sending other people's children to school. If you are willing to make sure those economic burdens are not carried by me, I'm willing to carry my "COVID tithe-ance".
You're also paying the financial burden created by those who refused to wear masks, keep their distance from others, isolate themselves, get vaccinated already. Also, I am carrying all those burdens that you list! The point is that it got this bad because of fucking ill-informed, "don't tread on me" assholes. We can't go back, but that doesn't change the fact that had those assholes been better people, we'd be in a far better place.
I know you're a troll but I have to admit I find you entertaining. You keep repeating your mantra that vaccines are "safe and effective" but there's no way we know they are safe until long term effects are studied. As you know "the science" at one time proclaimed that cigarettes, asbestos, and lead paint were "safe." Critical thinkers who thought otherwise I'm sure you would have labelled "anti-science." As far as their effectiveness, despite mass vaccinanations we're experiencing wave after wave of re-infections, many of which are occurring in the vaccinated. Yeah, sounds real effective. The polio and small pox vaccines were effective because those diseases are essentially eradicated. Not so with COVID which is essentially a flu virus and the flu will always be with us. Deal with it.
You guys need to stop responding to this troll. Your just encouraging him and clogging up the message discussions. Which is probably the purpose of a troll.
You're absolutely right. I engage him partly to show others he's a troll but also because in other posts I've gotten under his skin and pissed him off. It's a guilty pleasure but you're right I should stop.
You need to educate yourselves by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
They do. The virions are in aerosols and droplets and thus wearing a masks greatly reduces how much viral particles, both viable virions and extraneous viral proteins, RNA, etc. Add to that keeping apart from others and you have a greatly reduced risk of illness.
Can you provide any evidence to back up those statements, like you keep demanding of everyone else? And keep in mind that any evidence would need to take into account countries like Sweden.
WTF don't you get that having enough people refuse to a) follow the guidelines, masks, distance, etc, and (b) get vaccinated have led to people losing their jobs, businesses closing down, inflation, etc?
Or its about protecting ourselves from the clot shot:
Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning
Oh, so you're acknowledging now that the vaccines are not, in fact, safe? That's a good start. Now see if you can wrap your head around the concept of variable risk for different populations based on e.g. age, health, etc
No, they're safe and effective. The risks of a side effect from the vaccine is far, far lower than the risks of severe illness or death from Covid-19, as the Covid-19 mortality numbers prove. Nothing is risk free, start there.
Try looking up absolute risk reduction and get back to us about the point of mass vaccination with a leaky shot. We really should quit feeding troll boy jeff
Correct, so how do you define "safe" then? Are people allowed to have different risk levels that they consider "safe", or do you believe that there is some universal, authoritarian definition of "safe" that everyone must agree with?
If I say that bungie jumping is "safe", are you compelled to agree with me? If the government says bungie jumping is "safe", are you compelled to agree with them? Or are you allowed to say, "you might be comfortable with that level of risk, but I'm not"?
Are you beginning to see how the "safe and effective" mantra doesn't actually capture the real world?
I really don't care about the anti-vaxxers, let them suffer Covid-19 including the risk of death, the issue are those that cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons.
Hey jeff, can you explain to me why I should take a vaccine that causes more severe adverse events then the number of severe covid cases it prevents? Effective indeed, if you mean effective in causing people to need medical care.
I don't care if you do or don't, the issue is that if morons like you were to get vaccinated the pandemic would be over, we'd be in a seasonal flu situation. But no, you prefer to read non-science bullshit like that blog post.
I wrote that post and am a scientist. Let's memorialize the fact that you don't care if I don't get vaccinated. I applaud this attitude and will let the other stuff pass.
The real issue here is the generation of mutant strains - that's what the unvaccinated do is provide the fodder for the virus and provide lots of instances - opportunities - for mutation. Only the ignorant or the idiotic would deny that.
Well then please explain how so many already vaccinated people are still providing fodder for the virus and getting infections? In addition, the natural course of every viral epidemic in recorded history has been that as it spreads throughout the population, it weakens. The "Omicron" variant is exceedingly mild and may signal an end to the COVID 19 hysteria.
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
I hate to tell you that if the vaccinated are, as data reveals, getting infected that implies viral replication. Any single stranded RNA virus is subject to many replication errors as it battles the immune system. The real danger in a leaky vaccine are replications in the vaccinations that evade the induced immunity. Those replications are even more hazardous to the vaccinated. So far, we can hope Omnichron will remain somewhat benign to the unvaccinated, we await the fate of the vaccinated, but hope it remains mild.
LOL! I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
The vaccines work and have been proven safe and effective. After you're vaccinated, your anti-bodies contract over time, this is the same with all diseases, but your immune system is set up to respond to another SARS-CoV-2 infection. However, as it takes time to ramp up the immune response, a booster provides neutralizing antibodies that are ready to go. It isn't that boosters will be necessary forever, but that they are a good idea now as cases have increased.
Of course, you're mistaken. That is not how the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines work.
MRNA vaccines alter the gene structure so that cells become less receptive (though not completely unreceptive, hence the less than 100% efficacy) to the spiked proteins of the virus attaching themselves to the cell's outter walls. The more the cellular structure is altered via the nanolipids, the less ability they have to employ natural immunity, thus, causing an increased reliance on external aid (boosters).
In short, these MRNA vaccines are effectively altering and diminishing our immune system with each new dosage.
LOL! OK folks, this is a great example of either a troll or an idiot. mRNA is transcribed in the nucleus and moves to the cytoplasm where it is used as a template for a ribosome to synthesize a protein. It has nothing to do with altering gene structure.
In the case of the Covid-19 vaccine, the mRNA is used to synthesize the spike protein that is then presented to the immune system as an antigen such that the immune system will identify it as "other" and generate an immune response.
“Mechanistically, we found that the spike protein localizes in the nucleus and inhibits DNA damage repair by impeding key DNA repair protein BRCA1 and 53BP1 recruitment to the damage site.… Our findings reveal a potential molecular mechanism by which the spike protein might impede adaptive immunity and underscore the potential side effects of full-length spike-based vaccines.”
You don’t have to take anyone else’s word for it regarding the progressive destruction of your immune system with each successive injection (as demonstrated in Dr. Nathan Thompson’s analysis of a patient’s pre-and post-vaxx (#1 and #2) bloodwork: https://www.brighteon.com/d0b119e8-6c42-4bc3-9e32-d6d37b1ff769). Just get an enhanced autoimmune panel to see how your specific immune system has been affected. Better yet, get one before and after each booster shot you get from now until infinity and see how your natural killer T-cells fare before and after each shot.
Oh, and make sure you add regular D-Dimer tests to your lab work to detect microclots before they become fatal cardiac events.
😆 A “denier” site? Brighteon is simply a video-hosting service—it has no agenda besides permitting free speech, unlike your Big Tech overlords.
Did you watch the video? Like I said, you don’t have to take anyone’s word for it. Go get your enhanced immune panel tests and see how your very own immune system is doing. Pure data, no opinion needed.
Hey smart guy, you are injecting yourself with a technology that tells your body to create the spike - the very thing that causes illness and disease. Sounds super safe!
Per your original assertion that the vaccines result in a 'contraction of antibodies' you highlight your misunderstanding of "the science".
That you can cut and paste from a site explaining a portion of the process in no way means you understand what was written, what you posted, and what the full process actually is.
This is absolutelly false and anything that follows therefrom can safely be discounted as it's based on a faulty perception:
"MRNA (SIC) vaccines alter the gene structure so that cells"
NOPE!
No genetic material is altered.
mRNA is inserted. It provides directions for cellular machinery to create a particular immune response. NO DNA IS ALTERED, and neither is RNA, for that matter, though our cells don't use RNA as genetic material.
Well, that's not what we were promised. We were promised one vaccination and you're done. I remember very clearly the outrage at the FDA over the idea of a booster back in June. It was dismissed out of hand. A few months later, it was outright panic.
Did you ever wonder why adults who have had chickenpox as adults aren't scared to be around their kids who have chickenpox? That's long-term immunity and is proven to last a long, long time.
So "Your antibodies contract over time" is a confusing statement from a science perspective, and perhaps you meant t cell immunity.
There are four major proteins in Covid. The antibodies created by the vaccines only protect against one - the spike protein. The variants are merely mutating the spike protein to get around the vaccine.
These vaccines absolutely protect against hospitalization and mortality. But they are not what we were promised, and they sure as hell don't protect against infection. These are weak, leaky vaccines.
The vaccines also cause hospitalization. No one is keeping careful track of that, but the safety studies showed more severe adverse vaccine events than severe covid. "Severe" means requiring medical attention. See my substack.
"But they are not what we were promised, and they sure as hell don't protect against infection. These are weak, leaky vaccines."
Then you didn't understand vaccines. Vaccines do NOT protect against infection. Never did. Vaccines protect against severe illness. Read some textbooks, watch TWiV, and take the virology and immunology classes provided by Vincent Racaniello and Brianne Barker on youtube.
I think you're just making things up at this point. Classical vaccines do prevent against infection and that's the whole point. That's why polio, smallpox, yellow fever and other major diseases have been nearly eradicated when we implemented vaccination. Smallpox - one shot, 95% reduction in infection. Google it or watch your favorite youtube videos.
TWiV seem like some real idiots. They were talking about how warm fall weather in New England is a sign of global warming. That weather pattern has been around forever and is called Indian summer. I'm sure their virology is just as insightful.
yes, you have literally just said the exact same thing. If you don't understand how your statement is the equivalent of the other statement, you are just regurgitating material you have heard.
No, he's right; it's not at all the same thing. For one, it's a generational difference. YOUR statement is that the parent changes when it's the child that may have changes and these changes are rather random and may or may not "help" the next generation of virus not be caught by the immune system. And, if you don't understand why these are different statements, you are just regurgitating your incorrect perceptions you have heard or made up.
No, there is a difference. Genetic material mutates, proteins do not, they are produced by the mRNA as instructed. A protein may have thus be different from that produced by other mRNA variants, but it has not mutated.
Okay, so you're just being pedantic. It was obvious that was the meaning of the original statement, since the protein synthesis is just a direct result of the mutation in gene encoding for that protein. It's perfectly acceptable to say that the protein is a mutation.
"There are four major proteins in Covid. The antibodies created by the vaccines only protect against one - the spike protein. The variants are merely mutating the spike protein to get around the vaccine."
They chose the spike protein as it is the obvious choice as antigen as it is the most exposed. The vaccines don't protect against the antigen, they provide the means for its creation in cells to generate an immune response to it such that it is recognized in future infections.
yeah, having your own cells producing the toxic spike protein is SUCH a good idea.
As I understand., cells expressing a foreign protein are killed by the immune system - part of the process. How many would that be? And where? There are reports of spike protein in very odd places.
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
The definition of severe covid has a lot in common with panic attacks. Both are characterized by respiratory distress and over 30 breaths per minute are enough for a severe covid diagnosis if there is a positive lab test. That is the FDA definition.
Many people with a positive covid test will experience panic, even if the disease is otherwise mild. The vaccine effect could be mostly mental after the antibodies wear off.
boosters will be necessary forever...it's in Fauci's playbook, if he can get away with it...the COVID vaccine is minimally effective at a maximum price in both dollars and health...
It's amazing people including Fauci publicly pretend we might just need one more shot, while in the background politicians are signing massive multi-year booster deals.
That's not definite. At the moment the booster is suggested only because it produces a lot of neutralizing anti-bodies for about 6 months and so if a vaccinated person is exposed, they don't have to wait for anti-body production to ramp up. After 6 months the immune system naturally contracts the anti-bodies as they are no longer needed.
If the refusal of people to get vaccinated doesn't result in other SARS-CoV-2 serotypes, then boosters in the future might be seen as a good measure as flu vaccines are now, but wouldn't be argued as necessary as the immune system would still recognize the SARS-CoV-2 antigens and step up a response.
Children may have a reduced chance of severe Covid-19 but that is not zero risk. Children should get immunized for the same reason that adults do, a) to reduce their risk of severe Covid-19 and (b) to reduce their threat to others if they do develop Covid-19.
That is a statement that is thoroughly incorrect. Children are not major spreaders of Covid, simply because they don't carry much viral load. Further, they are at minor risk from Covid - long Covid is extremely rare, and mortality is almost zero.
Yet we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccine on children. So you want to pump an experimental gene therapy into your kid? That's criminal in my view.
If you're at risk or over 60, get the vaccine! But for children, it makes zero sense.
I was very pro vaccination before the pandemic.
But seeing these vaccines rushed to market, conflated as classical vaccines (they aren't); seeing them become extraordinarily leaky, requiring constant boosters for the rest of eternity; seeing them pushed on children (who have nearly zero risk from the virus); seeing the very real issues around cardiomyopathy being brushed away; seeing otherwise perfectly reasonable (and vaccinated) people demand that others vaccinated to protect their own health (if you're vaccinated, why do you care?); and seeing any opposition squashed and vilified... Yeah, call me whatever names, but the "science" I'm seeing applied has nothing to do with what I was trained in as actual science.
New "general rule"... whenever someone invokes "science", e.g., "science gave us these vaccines" it's akin to "god works in mysterious ways". Chances are near 100% that the Dunning Krugerite in question has no idea what the "science" is behind their chest beating and coat-tail riding superiority complex.
I find many people who claim to “believe in science” in reality believe in “scientism”, a pseudoreligious cult in which scientists are treated as priests privy to some knowledge not accessible to the common person — see, e.g,, the cult of Fauci. But in reality, this is the opposite of science — if the data contradicts the pronouncements of Fauci (or any other scientist), then the truth is in the data.
LOL! Science is democratic in that anyone can participate. All they need do is develop the competency. All of you anti-science types are just too lazy or stupid to get the required education, choosing the lazy way out with crap like what you just posted.
There is are literally THOUSANDS of scientists doctors and nurses ( btw, Phd level educated ppl,) who are debating the studies, or lack of studies in many cases, calling out the obvious suppression of anyone questioning this vaccine rollout, who are against the mandates and who have clinical experience with successful early treatments that are being censored deplatformed and canceled. Science should always remain open to debate and scrutiny. When science ceases to encourage honest debate it’s not science, it’s propaganda.
They're deniers.
Deniers of what?
Jeffrey, just stop. Your fingers-in-ears denials about even the most basic of realities suggests that your capacity for critical thinking is on par with that of a footstool. You're embarrassing yourself.
“A footstool” 😂😂😂
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
Yes you are right. Rabbi Michael Lerner and his amazing wife Cat Zavis talk a lot about this. That we cannot exchange scientism for spirituality
To TROLL Jeff Biss, below:
``There is no suppression, censoring etc.``
I need listen no further to your shilling. Anyone not living under a rock for the past 2 years KNOWS that massive censoring of any evidence negative to mass vaccination has been CENSORED. In my own area all papers refused to even allow comments citing OFFICIAL data on adverse events. I try to be civil in discussions but not with TROLLS. If you wanted to make the weak point that the censoring is justified by public interest you would be wrong but not a TROLL. When you deny reality you identify your species as TROLL. Two words for you - one rhymes with a well known water fowl the other is a preposition. If you are even bright enough to decode that. TROLL.
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
Ah, yes, the pejorative spouter.
Just come back when you've slept it off.
"pejorative spouter". Sounds like a pejorative spout to me. LOL
LOL! Science is based on evidence and the research evidence indicated that the mRNA could provide the means to setup the immune system to fight future infections. there are not two sides to this issue.
Yes. Science is based on evidence. The evidence I see currently is that you are troll or a moron or both.
Can somebody you take you off repeat? Get a life dude.
No troll, but I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
The fact you used the qualifier "could" means that there definitely are many sides to this story. Nobody knows with any certainty about the long-term effects of these injections. Nobody knows the mRNA injection efficacy over the longer term and all evidence points to the fact that their efficacy wanes. We (as in humanity) are still gathering the evidence and anyone that claims the matter is settled is deluded.
Could means that some people's immune systems do not do what most people's do. Thee are not two sides to this issue.
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
INFORM yourself by reading Robert Kennedy`s book on event covid.
Then STFU, please.
Where's a downvote button when you need one. You're as offensive as anyone spouting pejoratives; STFU your damned self.
See? Doesn't that feel nice?
You're not here to persuade or otherwise have a fruitful conversation like most of us, you're here to attack people you don't agree with and, sorry, humanity is NOT served by that, no matter how much it gets your rocks off.
Doesn`t bother me one bit. The pejorative is justified or not. My reasoning for its use is set out (JB is clearly a troll as it denies reality). What is yours ?
And the other reason for my pejorative is JB`s arrogant verbiage "inform yourself".
Oh, that book must be good as RFK Jr. is an idiot. I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
I could care less what that fucking idiot thinks. LOL
"inform"? ha ha ha
"truth is in the data" if it was collected and analyzed properly.
As Samuel Clemmens once said, "There's lies, there's damned lies, and there there's statistics." And, as computer programmers would remind us: "Garbage in, garbage out."
As a scientist myself, I'm always looking for errors in data collection - did we get enough, is it the right kind of data to address what we hope to learn? Etc. And, errors in analysis are pervasive, and pretty much everyone is prone to them, so you have to teach yourself to ignore your hunches and biases most of the time and just go with a methodical procedure, like a pilot's checklist when flying a plane - and use your hunches to investigate possibilities you hadn't considered to analyze novel aspects. And, again, have someone else double-check your work! ...As they say in the writing field, "EVERYONE needs a good editor!" (Even Glenn!)
Excellent post.
Same. Except I believe the vaccine schedule in the United States is now up to about 72 shots for children. This is absurd. There is clearly a profit driven motive going on. Bill Gates himself said he attributed the bulk of his wealth to the vaccines. I don’t think people would have such a problem if it weren’t for the obvious big Pharma cabal regulatory capture of our NIH American Medical Association CDC and world health organization. No one can deny this. Big Pharma is running the show, funding the so-called studies, lining the pockets of the corrupt Congress people who refuse to stand up. Fauci Tedros Daszak and all the others who have conflicts of interests as they are patent holders of the treatments being pushed like Remdesivir and also the vaccines being brought to market. All the evidence is there. People need only to connect the dots. It is so outrageous there are no words to describe it.
The reasoning to demand or at least deeply wish for others to get vaccinated comes from old wisdom passed down from at least my parents' generation. A population with a high vaccine rate (early predictions with the sarscov2 vaccine were 70%) can stop community spread. There are are always people who, for medical reasons, cannot get vaccines. If community spread can be stopped, and even better, the virus eliminated, those more vulnerable people can be protected. Sadly, I am seeing that this set of vaccines doesn't seem to be measuring up in ability to prevent spread, because people with breakthrough cases are still contagious. Perhaps at a higher vaccination rate... but I've been watching those places with a 70% vaccination rate and they are still having a lot of trouble with the virus spreading, as far as I can tell.
Stopping community spread is not an option with these vaccines. In reality, and as a top CDC official has admitted, they reduce but do not eliminate infection (Britain had over 5000 vaccinated people DIE in a month), and once infected, they do not prevent - or apparently even reduce - further spread. They may reduce the vaccinated person's chances of severe disease. Nice for them, but not a public health measure. It may even increase spread, by making more asymptomatic spreaders.
"Stopping community spread is not an option with these vaccines."
They would if everyone who could got vaccinated.
How would that stop community spread? These vaccines are nonsterilizing, they don’t stop people from spreading the virus, including to other vaccinated people. They just reduce the symptoms.
Poor Jeff hasn’t looked at the recent data showing higher vax rate, more cases. If they were anywhere close to effective enough to end the pandemic, the evidence would be obvious that they are stopping transmission. They aren’t, and it’s not close.
“Poor Jeff” is a moron and troll, paid or otherwise. No need to respond to such a non-entity.
Vaccines don't need to be sterilizing to be effective at ending a pandemic, all they need to do is to reduce illness to a level that the health system can care for the worst cases without negatively affecting others.
These are not traditional vaccines. They are largely ineffective at stopping infection but can be helpful in reducing hospitalization.
NO vaccine prevents infection, zero. They setup the immune system to fight future infections. Don't be stupid, educate yourself, read some textbooks.
What a rude and obnoxious comment. If you are such an expert, you should be able to draw the common sense conclusion that when people are saying "prevent infection" in this context, they really mean "prevent the spread of infection." How many hours have you spent in this comment section?
LOL! What is so rude about what I posted? I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
"Don't be stupid, educate yourself, read some textbooks." Rude. Can you not see it, yourself?
These vaccines may be even worse. The vaccinated get infected and for a period have no symptoms as they shed to others. We can only hope the vaccines do not result in damage to the innate immune system. We who are vaccinated are now quite worried after what we have done to ourselves. Omicron now seems to be affecting us!
Pity the textbooks aren't keeping up with the flood of news reports. The vaccine protects the individual against severe illness but not society.
LOL! I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
Pity you who doesn't know just how little you understand to post such stupid comments.
Thanks for your ever so kind response.
"The vaccinated get infected and for a period have no symptoms as they shed to others."
Just like the unvaccinated. However, because most people who took one of the three vaccines (here talking USA only) will have a good immune response immediately, their infectious period is substantially shorter - the exact amount is still under study but it's likely between, early data shows, 5X and 10X faster.
"We can only hope the vaccines do not result in damage to the innate immune system."
Incorrect; we can also know that said damage is impossible, given how they function. Because they have "artificially taught" the immune system how to recognize this pathogen, the "innate immune system" won't create its own response, since it's already responding, but beyond that, the mRNA provided isn't able to do any damage because what it does is encode what's sometimes called the or a "key" (and some even refer to it as a "flag" protein that will bond with a part of the virus - different mRNA vaccines can lock onto different parts of the target, but I understand that most virologists consider going after the particular coat protein called the spike is the best target. And so, the appropriate cells in your existing immune system simply produce this red-flag protein that will bond with a target and thereby identify for the immune system what to attack.
We don't have to worry about harming our "innate immune systems," though it would be nice if there was a way short of live infection for us to teach our bodies to recognize the virus as the body may recognize more of the coat proteins and thus make the immune response even stronger.
I was given heart by this recent JAMA article https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2787447 which suggests in a small study that the re-infected gain a better immunity. But we still await larger analyses with great hope.
Those vaccinated appear to be less contagious: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/12/vaccinated-who-get-breakthrough-infections-less-contagious/
The issue is that vaccination sets up one's immune system to fight future infections and thus reduces the risk of severe illness and thus the risk of being contagious is reduced.
I suggest that you listen to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), listen to Vincent Racaniello's virology lectures and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube, they are actual college lectures, and watch Vincent's live streams on Wednesday evenings, see his youtube channel. All of these issues are covered with real science, good, bad and indifferent and you can post questions to him.
The information in the Harvard study was already known; the vaccinated clear the virus marginally faster than the unvaxxed (though peak viral production is roughly the same in both groups). The problem is that in real world scenarios, this shorter duration of viral shedding has little to no appreciable impact on community spread. That's shown in a study in The Lancet Infectious Diseases (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext) and by the fact that almost no correlation has between vaccination levels and spread in areas such as U.S. counties and countries around the world (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10654-021-00808-7).
Highly vaxxed states, such as those in New England, have experienced case surges even as low-vaxxed India and Africa have extremely manageable spread, relatively speaking.
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210513/over-_99-percent-hospitalized-2021-covid-patients-unvaccinated
Confounded data. Try more recent incremental data. The first four months of 2021 was when the vaccines we just beginning their rollout. Then in New England we were shocked to discover the vaccinated were carrying the virus and infecting others. Naked bath parties even for the vaccinated aren't wise, but they imagined they were safe.
And the vaccinated needed no medical care! What a fucking surprise!
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
"hen in New England we were shocked to discover the vaccinated were carrying the virus and infecting others."
This should have been a shock to exactly nobody who knows how vaccines work.
About vaccinated people demanding vaccination mandates, it's not about them, it's about protecting the unvaccinated and helping reduce the economic burdens that the stupid anti-vaxxers bring down on everyone.
No one will accuse you of using science.
These "economic burdens" are a propagandized fiction, besides the fact that a free society does not force supposedly cost saving medical procedures on people as if they were some piece of equipment. I pay into the medical system every day and have used it very rarely, and I've not been in a hospital for anything. For what it's worth, I'm "fully" "vaccinated" by last summer's definition, but I've collected a list of fun new health issues in the time since my second shot. Related? Who knows! Certainly no one's looking into it. I can live with this, getting the shots was my own decision (under social pressure from friends and family, ofc), prior to the mandates and passports. But I would not get these shots in the current environment specifically because it would not be my decision, and I'm not interested in any boosters.
Coercing medical procedures is wrong and it needs to stop now. I can't believe we even have to say this.
Thank you.
LOL! The economics burdens due to the idiots who politicized the pandemic are very real.
Coercing vaccinations is right and would have worked had it been done earlier. Now I think that the antivaxxers should be forced to deal with their decision and be a lower priority to others who need health care. if they die, so much the better.
Thank you for being brave enough to admit out loud you’re for the gassing of the vermin, Jeff. Look how little time it took for the propagandists to convert you into a sociopath. Not nearly as long as it took many Germans to sign on to the Nazi propaganda about the disease-spreading Jews.
No one will accuse you and your fellow Stockholm Syndrome sufferers of using science, Jeff. Try shocking us for once and providing your peer-reviewed sources (sans conflicts of interest) for the lies you’re spreading on behalf of your BigPharma captors.
Oh, and BTW, the economic burdens were artificially imposed by your saviors to create hardship and force people to comply with totalitarian demands. It’s called Biderman’s Chart of Coercion (https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe149aef7-54ef-48eb-b05f-f954cbad0b0d_2550x4200.jpeg), and it worked like a charm on you and your fellow Covidians.
“The forest kept shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe. For the axe was clever and convinced them that since its handle was wood it was one of them.” —Anonymous
You're a conspiracy theorist with no valid evidence to support anything that you post.
😂 Still have that mirror I gave you earlier? Might as well keep it since everything you say applies to yourself.
I have provided peer-reviewed evidence for every point I’ve made. You have slung ad hominem attacks and juvenile “nuh-uh,” “yuh-huh” retorts.
I see you’re not up to handling a mature debate based on scientific evidence, and I’ve wasted enough time on you already, so fare thee well and enjoy your brief life of everlasting boosters!
Conspiracies exist. That's why numerous laws (such as RICO) exist to deal with them.
The issue lies not in the theorizing, per se. The task is to determine which of the theories start with reasonable hypotheses based on *the evidence at hand*, and warrant further examination to determine if they are true or false.
That must make you a coincidence theorist.
In other words, you've got nothing but name-calling.
You would have done fantastically well in the eugenics movement.
Eugenics has nothing to do with vaccination to prevent disease spread. Stay on topic.
Repeat: these vaccines do not prevent spread of the disease. They are not public health measures.
Your moral standing is now clear.
"if they die, so much the better."
That's you. Do I need to draw out in crayon for you why you would do well in the eugenics movement, or have you figured it out yet?
"The economics burdens due to the idiots who politicized the pandemic are very real."
Nice to see that we agree on something... The idiots in our Ministries of Truth have a lot to answer for.
What are you referring to as "Ministries of Truth"?
I see you’re ignorant of 1984 as well. Why does that not surprise me in the least.
OMG, nobody can possibly be as ignorant as you portray yourself to be.
Any and every organization that suppresses discourse.
How does any human write "if they die, so much the better"?
He's obviously either a troll or a Branch Covidian. Either way don't give him the attention he craves.
Easy, you just typed your post, same way. Getting rid of these anti-science, denier types is a good thing. They do it to themselves because they are too stupid and are a big problem in every society in which they thrive.
So you want people who you think are stupid to die? Killing off the feeble minded was precisely the goal of the eugenics movement. Are you understanding yet why you look like a sociopath?
This guy is dangerous.
If this is where your logical thinking has led, it's way past time to check your premises.
Has led to what? That it's a good thing that those who refuse to get vaccinated for the greater good may die? It's their doing, they deserve what they get as they have the opportunity to actually educate themselves with facts but refuse to. I've got nothing to do with their fate, they do.
Ah, the greater good. The cause of millions of deaths throughout history.
I think I understand what you are saying, but allow me to rephrase it more succinctly:
“Be a Good German, and get the vaccine. And if you can’t do it for yourself, do it for the Fatherland.”
Is that about right?
That you think that way indicates that you're broken and a good example of the anti-science, anti-reality rot in the US. People like yourself are the direct cause of the 750,000 Covid-19 deaths in the US.
Yours is a stunningly stupid comment. It involves a conceit that is hard to fathom. To accuse folks who question whether to take a vaccine as being "a direct cause of the 750,000 Covid deaths" is really evidence of your own polemical irrationality. To say nothing of a stunning level of conceit.
Jeff's answers are formulaic enough for even non-techie me to suspect a bot, and so, not a state-of-the-art bot.
LOL! They deal with the specific issue of a post. I'm a good bot!
You are the cause. If not for the likes of you and your ilk, more people would not have to deal with the anti-science, anti reality noise that has caused so much suffering and death.
You mean the bullshit coming out of the governments, the media, and the pharmaceutical companies?
I couldn't agree more.
I cannot even fathom how your bloodline has survived this long.
Here’s a mirror, Jeff, since you’re talking about yourself.
And those 750,000 deaths? Your beloved Fauci and his corrupt drug cartel caused those by intentionally smearing and suppressing life-saving early treatment protocols and employing murderous drugs like Remdesivir and intubation/ventilation.
You’re mad at the wrong people. If you are courageous enough to challenge your propaganda-programmed cult beliefs, read “The Real Anthony Fauci” and get back to us with counterarguments to anything you dispute in there.
LOL! Nope, it was Trump and his supporters who made unsubstantiated claims about various drugs that created the noise that caused those deaths.
🤣🤣🤣
Oh, I see you’re a TDS sufferer, too. That explains how easily you’ve been manipulated into believing megacorporate lies.
Seriously, Jeff, this is getting exhausting trying to disenchant you of all of the propaganda you’ve swallowed. Please save me the trouble and dispel all of your delusions by reading “The Real Anthony Fauci.” I dare you.
Are you willing to pay those you contemptuously call "anti-vaxxers" when they are critically injured or die as a result of the vaccine? Will those economic burdens be shared? You are blindly allegiant to the Cult of Fauci, and have confused religion and science.
If these are so safe, why did big pharma demand full liability protection? Why do they refuse to sell the vaccines in countries that refuse to grant that protection?
they are not safe...
They are.
Yuh-huh! 😆
Very convincing.
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-are-pharmaceutical-companies-immune-covid-19-vaccine-lawsuits-1562793
Can you not sense the absurdity of big pharma claiming total safety while refusing to accept any liability for deaths and injuries?
Or the absurdity of claiming long-term safety of a product using new technology and no track record other than current data?
What are your long-term safety claims based on? Inferred from the history of approved vaccines using different technology, while ignoring all the failed attempts including the decades the entire industry could not develop one for coronavirus?
All corporations want protection from suit. That's not proof of anything. The data proves that the vaccines are safe and effective.
The article you cite states explicitly, "The Ruling
True.
Pharmaceutical companies are protected from liability regarding the COVID-19 vaccines."
I'm not disputing that they were granted immunity. only posting a link to an article about it.
What about their risk from severe Covid-19? No, the vaccines are proven safe and effective. There is no point to any anti-vaxxer argument, period. The testing has already indicated what to watch out for.
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have experienced negative side effect - many of them quite severe and many deadly. I'm sure you believe the sudden skyrocketing of myocarditis in very healthy young athletes is just a coincidence.
Vaccines should be limited to those at high risk. Those populations are well known. All others have been needlessly exposed to risk - including me.
In addition, we won't know the long term effects of this brand new, never before tried, experimental, approach to vaccines (mrna) for many years.
So all you can reasonably claim is that IN THE SHORT TERM (less than one year) the vaccines are safe.
They are not safe in the short term. The URF derived from comparing VAERS data to leaked Medicare data indicates VAERS is under-reported by a factor of 44 rather than Steve Kirsch's earlier estimate of 41. Given that there are well over 9000 deaths reported in VAERS, that means 43 times that number should have been reported but weren't, a total of about 400,000. Granted that not all of those were actually caused by the vaccines, it's still a huge number and explains the jump in all cause mortality for 2021 reported by CDC. It's not difficult to hide huge numbers of deaths in a population of 330,000,000.
The vaccines are very safe as proven by the number of vaccines given and the number of problems reported in VAERS, none of which has been proven to be due to the vaccine as stated on the VAERS site. However, even if some deaths are due to the vaccine the risk of Covid-19 is far, far greater.
Can’t even claim that given the preponderance of evidence that they are unsafe and ineffective.
There is no such evidence! They are safe and effective.
You claim:
"Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have experienced negative side effect - many of them quite severe and many deadly."
I've looked into this and found that ALL the analyses that make this claim ones I either stumbled across on my own (not many) or the ones people have pointed me to (most) fail to properly evaluate against the background and filter out the instances where there was a report but it was then show to have no causal type relationship to the vaccine under study - and when I say no causal relationship, I mean _completely_ not related.
You mean the CDC isn't analyzing the VAERS data...at all? What are they hiding?
See my post above: VAERS to VAERS; there have been more deaths and adverse reactions in one year, with one set of vaccines, than for ALL vaccines ... since 1986, when it was started. That automatically corrects for the deficiencies of VAERS.
And a footnote: going through this depressing string, it's pretty obvious that, on the whole, it's the "anti-scientific" "anti'vaxxers" posting data, not the vaxxers. You're an exception of sorts. And since you give no source nor any data, we have to take your argument on faith.
In other words - didn't reach the conclusion I wanted...
I'm sure it is just one big coincidence that, for example, myocarditis just happens to show up shortly after a lot of athletes get their jab. Even the Surgeon General of the US Military has admitted that more people will die from myocarditis over the next five years than will be saved by the vaccine.
You are being willfully blind, although I do hope that when you get "boosted" you don't suffer the same fate as so many others.
None of the reported side effects are verified to have been caused by the vaccines, this is stated on the VAERS site. However, reporting does provide a view into potential problems. This is a good thing.
Just understand that Covid-19 has killed over 800,000 Americans! Not one death has been proven to have been caused by the vaccines. However, if a few deaths are proven, the risk of Covid-19 is far, far greater as over hundreds of millions of vaccinations have been administered!
I’ll give you this, Jeff, you are impervious to evidence! Hats off to you for your obdurate obeisance to BigPharma propaganda.
“None of the reported side effects are verified to have been caused by the vaccines, this is stated on the VAERS site. However, reporting does provide a view into potential problems. This is a good thing.”
Hill’s Criteria of Causality has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt regarding the fatal and injurious consequences of these experimental injections. Here’s one video to get you up to speed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4MViwU3XOo
“Just understand that Covid-19 has killed over 800,000 Americans!”
No, your beloved Saint Fauci and his psychopathic policies killed those people by denying safe, cheap, and effective life-saving medications while simultaneously deploying $3,000/pill Remdeathivir/Rundeathisnear and lethal interventions like intubation (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7476450/) while causing ventilator-associated lung injuries (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8128668/).
If you are indeed a human being and not a pharma-funded bot, then please for the love of humanity get your head out of your propaganda and start waking up to the fact that you are defending the very monsters who pose the greatest threat to freedom and the survival of the human species in history.
Well, that's a sensible policy, but it's not what we're being told. We're told "it's to protect others", which is simply not true. The vaccines don't protect against infection.
And the other side of it is we have treatments now for Covid, such as monoclonal antibodies, which are amazingly effective if given early. So it's not all about protection. It's about Pfizer talking points.
"Protecting others" is true. While vaccines do not prevent infections they do prevent severe illness and that results in less virion replication and thus less spread.
Understand that vaccines set up the immune system t fight future infections and cost about $20/dose while monoclonal antibodies do not and cost any where from $2,000 to $5,000/dose. They're as effective as your own antibodies but they aren't vaccines!
That's not true, vaccinated people who get infected have been demonstrated to have the same viral load.
No, they have not because the test is a PCR test that checks only for viral RNA not viable virions, that would take a plaque assay.
This is simply mistaken:
"We're told "it's to protect others", which is simply not true. The vaccines don't protect against infection."
See the comments of redg1657 both up and downthread.
All I see is BigPharma talking points and no scientific evidence. Try again.
None is so blind as he who will not see.
B-I-N-G-O! So when are you going to pry your eyes open?
BTW, why don’t you look up the lot numbers for your injections and see if they’re among the 5% of toxic batches responsible for 90% of the adverse reactions? Then you can start focusing on mitigating your potential adverse reactions rather than fighting those who are trying to save people like you from risking their lives and health for a fraudulent narrative and totalitarian aims: http://howbad.info/ (more context here: https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/uk-scientist-reveals-bombshell-data)
I don't smoke and I don't drink, yet I pay the economic burden of those that do. I don't have children yet pay the economic burden of sending other people's children to school. If you are willing to make sure those economic burdens are not carried by me, I'm willing to carry my "COVID tithe-ance".
You're also paying the financial burden created by those who refused to wear masks, keep their distance from others, isolate themselves, get vaccinated already. Also, I am carrying all those burdens that you list! The point is that it got this bad because of fucking ill-informed, "don't tread on me" assholes. We can't go back, but that doesn't change the fact that had those assholes been better people, we'd be in a far better place.
I know you're a troll but I have to admit I find you entertaining. You keep repeating your mantra that vaccines are "safe and effective" but there's no way we know they are safe until long term effects are studied. As you know "the science" at one time proclaimed that cigarettes, asbestos, and lead paint were "safe." Critical thinkers who thought otherwise I'm sure you would have labelled "anti-science." As far as their effectiveness, despite mass vaccinanations we're experiencing wave after wave of re-infections, many of which are occurring in the vaccinated. Yeah, sounds real effective. The polio and small pox vaccines were effective because those diseases are essentially eradicated. Not so with COVID which is essentially a flu virus and the flu will always be with us. Deal with it.
You guys need to stop responding to this troll. Your just encouraging him and clogging up the message discussions. Which is probably the purpose of a troll.
You're absolutely right. I engage him partly to show others he's a troll but also because in other posts I've gotten under his skin and pissed him off. It's a guilty pleasure but you're right I should stop.
You need to educate yourselves by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
They are safe and effective: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
That's a press release, not evidence.
You remind me of one of Reagan's most famous quotes: It's not that you don't know much, it's that so much of what you know is wrong. Bless your heart!
Masks do not stop a microscopic virus. SCIENCE 101 bro.
They do. The virions are in aerosols and droplets and thus wearing a masks greatly reduces how much viral particles, both viable virions and extraneous viral proteins, RNA, etc. Add to that keeping apart from others and you have a greatly reduced risk of illness.
Can you provide any evidence to back up those statements, like you keep demanding of everyone else? And keep in mind that any evidence would need to take into account countries like Sweden.
Re Sweden:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/norway/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
yes, and? Think carefully about what you're trying to say before you answer.
WTF don't you get that having enough people refuse to a) follow the guidelines, masks, distance, etc, and (b) get vaccinated have led to people losing their jobs, businesses closing down, inflation, etc?
No, lockdowns did all of those things, not vaccinations or lack thereof. Again, I point you towards Sweden.
Or its about protecting ourselves from the clot shot:
Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712
The risks of Covid-19 are far, far greater than the side effects of the vaccines.
Oh, so you're acknowledging now that the vaccines are not, in fact, safe? That's a good start. Now see if you can wrap your head around the concept of variable risk for different populations based on e.g. age, health, etc
No, they're safe and effective. The risks of a side effect from the vaccine is far, far lower than the risks of severe illness or death from Covid-19, as the Covid-19 mortality numbers prove. Nothing is risk free, start there.
Try looking up absolute risk reduction and get back to us about the point of mass vaccination with a leaky shot. We really should quit feeding troll boy jeff
Correct, so how do you define "safe" then? Are people allowed to have different risk levels that they consider "safe", or do you believe that there is some universal, authoritarian definition of "safe" that everyone must agree with?
If I say that bungie jumping is "safe", are you compelled to agree with me? If the government says bungie jumping is "safe", are you compelled to agree with them? Or are you allowed to say, "you might be comfortable with that level of risk, but I'm not"?
Are you beginning to see how the "safe and effective" mantra doesn't actually capture the real world?
Got it. We need you to "protect" the unvaccinated because they're not capable of protecting themselves.
I really don't care about the anti-vaxxers, let them suffer Covid-19 including the risk of death, the issue are those that cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons.
Like you, I am so grateful for the busy bodies in this world.
Hey jeff, can you explain to me why I should take a vaccine that causes more severe adverse events then the number of severe covid cases it prevents? Effective indeed, if you mean effective in causing people to need medical care.
https://norstadt.substack.com/p/severe-adverse-events-vs-severe-covid
The vaccine is safe and effective: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
I don't care if you do or don't, the issue is that if morons like you were to get vaccinated the pandemic would be over, we'd be in a seasonal flu situation. But no, you prefer to read non-science bullshit like that blog post.
I wrote that post and am a scientist. Let's memorialize the fact that you don't care if I don't get vaccinated. I applaud this attitude and will let the other stuff pass.
The real issue here is the generation of mutant strains - that's what the unvaccinated do is provide the fodder for the virus and provide lots of instances - opportunities - for mutation. Only the ignorant or the idiotic would deny that.
Well then please explain how so many already vaccinated people are still providing fodder for the virus and getting infections? In addition, the natural course of every viral epidemic in recorded history has been that as it spreads throughout the population, it weakens. The "Omicron" variant is exceedingly mild and may signal an end to the COVID 19 hysteria.
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
I suggest you educate yourself by reading RFK Jrs. incredibly researched and document new book. I found it to be quite shocking.
RFK Jr is an anti-science anti-vaxxer. Nothing he says is supported by any research, study, data, etc.
I hate to tell you that if the vaccinated are, as data reveals, getting infected that implies viral replication. Any single stranded RNA virus is subject to many replication errors as it battles the immune system. The real danger in a leaky vaccine are replications in the vaccinations that evade the induced immunity. Those replications are even more hazardous to the vaccinated. So far, we can hope Omnichron will remain somewhat benign to the unvaccinated, we await the fate of the vaccinated, but hope it remains mild.
LOL! I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
Bingo!
Allow me to slightly edit your last sentence: “Just trust us, we know what's best for you and society, comrade"
Government sticking lockdowns and ridiculous mandates into the spokes of the economy and creating disasters.
Anti-vaxxers did this!
The vaccines work and have been proven safe and effective. After you're vaccinated, your anti-bodies contract over time, this is the same with all diseases, but your immune system is set up to respond to another SARS-CoV-2 infection. However, as it takes time to ramp up the immune response, a booster provides neutralizing antibodies that are ready to go. It isn't that boosters will be necessary forever, but that they are a good idea now as cases have increased.
Of course, you're mistaken. That is not how the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines work.
MRNA vaccines alter the gene structure so that cells become less receptive (though not completely unreceptive, hence the less than 100% efficacy) to the spiked proteins of the virus attaching themselves to the cell's outter walls. The more the cellular structure is altered via the nanolipids, the less ability they have to employ natural immunity, thus, causing an increased reliance on external aid (boosters).
In short, these MRNA vaccines are effectively altering and diminishing our immune system with each new dosage.
LOL! OK folks, this is a great example of either a troll or an idiot. mRNA is transcribed in the nucleus and moves to the cytoplasm where it is used as a template for a ribosome to synthesize a protein. It has nothing to do with altering gene structure.
In the case of the Covid-19 vaccine, the mRNA is used to synthesize the spike protein that is then presented to the immune system as an antigen such that the immune system will identify it as "other" and generate an immune response.
This is verified by reading microbiology textbooks and reading about the development of the mRNA vaccine, such as https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33498787/.
Here’s some reading for you, if you dare:
“SARS–CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8538446/
“Mechanistically, we found that the spike protein localizes in the nucleus and inhibits DNA damage repair by impeding key DNA repair protein BRCA1 and 53BP1 recruitment to the damage site.… Our findings reveal a potential molecular mechanism by which the spike protein might impede adaptive immunity and underscore the potential side effects of full-length spike-based vaccines.”
That actually has nothing whatsoever to do with the conversation to which it was injected.
You don’t have to take anyone else’s word for it regarding the progressive destruction of your immune system with each successive injection (as demonstrated in Dr. Nathan Thompson’s analysis of a patient’s pre-and post-vaxx (#1 and #2) bloodwork: https://www.brighteon.com/d0b119e8-6c42-4bc3-9e32-d6d37b1ff769). Just get an enhanced autoimmune panel to see how your specific immune system has been affected. Better yet, get one before and after each booster shot you get from now until infinity and see how your natural killer T-cells fare before and after each shot.
Oh, and make sure you add regular D-Dimer tests to your lab work to detect microclots before they become fatal cardiac events.
That's a denier site, note that this guy has produced no peer reviewed study, only a video. He's a liar.
The vaccines are proven safe and effective.
😆 A “denier” site? Brighteon is simply a video-hosting service—it has no agenda besides permitting free speech, unlike your Big Tech overlords.
Did you watch the video? Like I said, you don’t have to take anyone’s word for it. Go get your enhanced immune panel tests and see how your very own immune system is doing. Pure data, no opinion needed.
Hey smart guy, you are injecting yourself with a technology that tells your body to create the spike - the very thing that causes illness and disease. Sounds super safe!
Of course, you're mistaken.
Per your original assertion that the vaccines result in a 'contraction of antibodies' you highlight your misunderstanding of "the science".
That you can cut and paste from a site explaining a portion of the process in no way means you understand what was written, what you posted, and what the full process actually is.
Troll that shug...
This is absolutelly false and anything that follows therefrom can safely be discounted as it's based on a faulty perception:
"MRNA (SIC) vaccines alter the gene structure so that cells"
NOPE!
No genetic material is altered.
mRNA is inserted. It provides directions for cellular machinery to create a particular immune response. NO DNA IS ALTERED, and neither is RNA, for that matter, though our cells don't use RNA as genetic material.
Well, that's not what we were promised. We were promised one vaccination and you're done. I remember very clearly the outrage at the FDA over the idea of a booster back in June. It was dismissed out of hand. A few months later, it was outright panic.
Did you ever wonder why adults who have had chickenpox as adults aren't scared to be around their kids who have chickenpox? That's long-term immunity and is proven to last a long, long time.
So "Your antibodies contract over time" is a confusing statement from a science perspective, and perhaps you meant t cell immunity.
There are four major proteins in Covid. The antibodies created by the vaccines only protect against one - the spike protein. The variants are merely mutating the spike protein to get around the vaccine.
These vaccines absolutely protect against hospitalization and mortality. But they are not what we were promised, and they sure as hell don't protect against infection. These are weak, leaky vaccines.
The vaccines also cause hospitalization. No one is keeping careful track of that, but the safety studies showed more severe adverse vaccine events than severe covid. "Severe" means requiring medical attention. See my substack.
"But they are not what we were promised, and they sure as hell don't protect against infection. These are weak, leaky vaccines."
Then you didn't understand vaccines. Vaccines do NOT protect against infection. Never did. Vaccines protect against severe illness. Read some textbooks, watch TWiV, and take the virology and immunology classes provided by Vincent Racaniello and Brianne Barker on youtube.
I think you're just making things up at this point. Classical vaccines do prevent against infection and that's the whole point. That's why polio, smallpox, yellow fever and other major diseases have been nearly eradicated when we implemented vaccination. Smallpox - one shot, 95% reduction in infection. Google it or watch your favorite youtube videos.
I thin you are just refusing to educate yourself at this point, confusing a few data tid-bits that fit your preconceived narrative for education.
TWiV seem like some real idiots. They were talking about how warm fall weather in New England is a sign of global warming. That weather pattern has been around forever and is called Indian summer. I'm sure their virology is just as insightful.
Actually, it's the unprecedented warmth and severe weather in the upper midwest that reflects global cooking.
I'm referring to this episode (the only one I started):
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-818/
They are talking about New Jersey, and how summer weather on October 15 is a big deal. It isn't.
"The variants are merely mutating the spike protein to get around the vaccine."
Proteins are not mutated. The virus' genetic material undergoes mutation that then results in a protein variant
yes, you have literally just said the exact same thing. If you don't understand how your statement is the equivalent of the other statement, you are just regurgitating material you have heard.
No, he's right; it's not at all the same thing. For one, it's a generational difference. YOUR statement is that the parent changes when it's the child that may have changes and these changes are rather random and may or may not "help" the next generation of virus not be caught by the immune system. And, if you don't understand why these are different statements, you are just regurgitating your incorrect perceptions you have heard or made up.
What you just wrote has no connection to what I wrote. I said nothing of the sort.
No, there is a difference. Genetic material mutates, proteins do not, they are produced by the mRNA as instructed. A protein may have thus be different from that produced by other mRNA variants, but it has not mutated.
Okay, so you're just being pedantic. It was obvious that was the meaning of the original statement, since the protein synthesis is just a direct result of the mutation in gene encoding for that protein. It's perfectly acceptable to say that the protein is a mutation.
"There are four major proteins in Covid. The antibodies created by the vaccines only protect against one - the spike protein. The variants are merely mutating the spike protein to get around the vaccine."
They chose the spike protein as it is the obvious choice as antigen as it is the most exposed. The vaccines don't protect against the antigen, they provide the means for its creation in cells to generate an immune response to it such that it is recognized in future infections.
yeah, having your own cells producing the toxic spike protein is SUCH a good idea.
As I understand., cells expressing a foreign protein are killed by the immune system - part of the process. How many would that be? And where? There are reports of spike protein in very odd places.
I suggest that you educate yourself by listening to This Week in Virology (at microbe.tv/twiv), Vincent Racaniello's virology and Brianne Barker's immunology lectures on youtube.
"So "Your antibodies contract over time" is a confusing statement from a science perspective, and perhaps you meant t cell immunity."
Contraction is the term for the reduction in immune cells, anti-bodies as used in https://www.nature.com/articles/ni1098/.
Fair point.
"Well, that's not what we were promised. "
That's on you. Vaccines do not prevent infection, they reduce the risk of severe illness. That's it. It depends on a) the mutation rate of the pathogen and (b) the half-life of the anti-bodies. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/ppmc/articles/PMC24180/bin/pnas_96_24_14001__1.html for a discussion.
The definition of severe covid has a lot in common with panic attacks. Both are characterized by respiratory distress and over 30 breaths per minute are enough for a severe covid diagnosis if there is a positive lab test. That is the FDA definition.
Many people with a positive covid test will experience panic, even if the disease is otherwise mild. The vaccine effect could be mostly mental after the antibodies wear off.
boosters will be necessary forever...it's in Fauci's playbook, if he can get away with it...the COVID vaccine is minimally effective at a maximum price in both dollars and health...
It's amazing people including Fauci publicly pretend we might just need one more shot, while in the background politicians are signing massive multi-year booster deals.
Goal-post shifting, two weeks at a time—the extent of the public’s memory.
No shifting. Vaccines are what they are, the difference being that mRNA is now used to express the antigen. It works and it's safe.
“Safe and effective! Safe and effective! Safe and effective!”
If you keep repeating the Covidian catechisms, it makes it true! No need for peer-reviewed science to support your religious faith.
I see there’s no penetrating your cult beliefs, so I should save keystrokes and stop bothering.
That's not definite. At the moment the booster is suggested only because it produces a lot of neutralizing anti-bodies for about 6 months and so if a vaccinated person is exposed, they don't have to wait for anti-body production to ramp up. After 6 months the immune system naturally contracts the anti-bodies as they are no longer needed.
If the refusal of people to get vaccinated doesn't result in other SARS-CoV-2 serotypes, then boosters in the future might be seen as a good measure as flu vaccines are now, but wouldn't be argued as necessary as the immune system would still recognize the SARS-CoV-2 antigens and step up a response.
Solid reply, thanks.
Why have case increased - drastically - when more than half the population has been vaccinated? The real world seems to be contradicting you.
For the same reason a thermonuclear bomb works.
Nuclear fusion? I fail to see the relevance.
No, not fusion, fission, which is enabled via a surplus of neutrons. From that the fusion reaction can begin.
About cardiomyopathy: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34222385/. See? No one brushed it away! No conspiracy!
You mean like this legitimate Canadian paper, which has nary a peep from the mainstream press? Look at the table on page 9.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.21267156v1.full.pdf
Or this one, showing nearly a 150% increased risk over 5 years for acute cardiac syndrome of those recently vaccinated:
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712
Same for me.
Children may have a reduced chance of severe Covid-19 but that is not zero risk. Children should get immunized for the same reason that adults do, a) to reduce their risk of severe Covid-19 and (b) to reduce their threat to others if they do develop Covid-19.
That is a statement that is thoroughly incorrect. Children are not major spreaders of Covid, simply because they don't carry much viral load. Further, they are at minor risk from Covid - long Covid is extremely rare, and mortality is almost zero.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/long-covid-19-rare-children-study-says
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/study-finds-kids-under-10-unlikely-to-spread-coronavirus-at-school
Yet we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccine on children. So you want to pump an experimental gene therapy into your kid? That's criminal in my view.
If you're at risk or over 60, get the vaccine! But for children, it makes zero sense.
"So you want to pump an experimental gene therapy into your kid? That's criminal in my view."
This vaccine is not an experimental gene therapy. Read about what mRNA does and you'll see why. mRNA is by default not genetic, got it?